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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
April was definitely a bad month for the industry. Despite the oil dilution issue on the sibling of the Pilot, the CR-V is selling so well! Things did slow down for the Pilot in April. Too early to tell, but it suggests to me the market is tightening with the new entrants and refreshed models including especially the Explorer 2020, Hyundai Palisade 2020, Kia Telluride 2020, The Subaru Ascent 2019 and the Toyota Highlander 2020 (some of these models aren't on sale yet but a lot of Americans could well be holding back to make a new purchase. Other factors include the fact that interest rates are at an all time high and tax refunds were low for 2019).

American Honda Announces April Sales Results - Acura News
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Just taking this off on a tangent but as you read along, you'll see why I am adding this here (I do not want to create another thread). This is the worst review of the sibling of the Pilot that I have read: 2019 Honda Passport First Test: Slotting Between Two Greats - MotorTrend.

I was expecting the Passport to be selling like hot cake but was surprised to see the CR-V that is plagued with the oil dilution issue far outselling the Passport. Almost 30,000 units of the CR-V compared to less than 3,000 units of the Passport. In March of 2019, Passport units sold was 2,800+ and in April of 2019, it was 2,900+. What is the appeal of a 1.5 turbo in the CR-V that is driving a lot of Americans to this model? Why would Americans prefer that to a 3.5L V6 that strips off the 3rd row that many say they don't need? Very interesting findings I must say. And yet, the Pilot has sold over 10,000 units in the first quarter of 2019. I hope to read comments so I better understand what's behind the preference for these 3 siblings.
 

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im guessing that since the passport just came out that maybe dealers arent giving as much discounts.
 

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The passport is a bust because it’s too pricey. I wanted one, but they wanted several thousand more for it than the pilot, so I bought a pilot. A smaller car that is very similar for more money, no thanks. They should have priced the passport between the crv and the pilot. I thought 2019 crvs had resolved the oil dilution issue.

The appeal of the crv is great gas mileage and very roomy for its segment, huge rear opening, bigger than pilot. plus it has a ton of features for less than $30k, even for the higher end models. You give up a little luxury and comfort compared to the pilot, no third row and it’s not quite as roomy, but it’s $5-$10k+ less than the pilot. No brainer if you dont quite need the space of the pilot.
 

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Just taking this off on a tangent but as you read along, you'll see why I am adding this here (I do not want to create another thread). This is the worst review of the sibling of the Pilot that I have read: 2019 Honda Passport First Test: Slotting Between Two Greats - MotorTrend.
To add another tangent to this thread, did you see where that review states:
"Touring and Elite trims come with a 550-watt, 10-speaker audio system that's clear but is short on range and has a little too much bass when you crank up the volume." How can the Pilot have too little bass and the Passport have too much???? My Touring stereo sounds good but the bass is definitely lacking.
 

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To add another tangent to this thread, did you see where that review states:
"Touring and Elite trims come with a 550-watt, 10-speaker audio system that's clear but is short on range and has a little too much bass when you crank up the volume." How can the Pilot have too little bass and the Passport have too much???? My Touring stereo sounds good but the bass is definitely lacking.

You can adjust this in the audio settings. The bass starts in the middle but once you start moving to the right its get deeper quickly.
 

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The passport is a bust because it’s too pricey. I wanted one, but they wanted several thousand more for it than the pilot, so I bought a pilot.
Honda is banking on the madness of SUV, which I think it's ending. Passport arrived too late. Gas prices are going up. This is the beginning of the "end."

The Passport is a Pilot, and I would think manufacturing steps are almost exactly the same, because it is the same, so therefore I don't think Honda can really lower the price.

From a marketing perspective, I agree with you 100%. I want one, but no way am I going to pay the same price as a Pilot. Marketing tells me I should pay more and get more. Not pay more and get less. In the pecking order, Passport need to be $3-4K less than a Pilot.
 

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Not supprised at Passport sales, why buy a 3 bedroom house, when you can get a 4 bedroom. Pilot is a much better value, so unless you really need the extra ground clearance (most people really don't) you are better off with the pilot. Plus with all due respect, if you are really looking for an offroad vehicle there are better choices. Honda got lazy on the build (ie copy of the pilot) and pricing, market is to competitive for that..

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk
 

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Probably many people who buys cr-v don’t even know about gas dilution issue.

I do have 2017 cr-v and 2017 pilot. I do like that cr-v is smaller n more nimble. Only down side with cr-v is that it’s so loud. Road noise is horrible. I can’t drive no more than 30 min. It can be improved with different tires but I still don’t see myself driving it for a long period of time.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Your inputs have been outstanding! Let me draw out the conclusions:

1. The Passport is overpriced from a consumer's point of view (not necessarily from the manufacturer's). EVEN IF you don't use the 3rd row, you're still have more value for cost with the choice of the Pilot over the Passport in their current pricing configuration. Just fold the 3rd row and make use of the extra space for cargo or imagine the row out of existence. Honda was indeed being lazy with just cutting off a chunk from the back of the Pilot and simply placing a new badge name on it. They very well could have made use of the same engine, but they should have invested a little more effort to differentiate it from the Pilot. Just employing the marketing gimmick that the Passport is a better off-roader simply because of the addition of a few inches of ground clearance isn't convincing. To sell more of the Passport, Honda needs to provide more incentives in terms of discounts but be prepared to make some changes in design for the next model year. It is interesting to point out the Passport sold slightly more than the Ridgeline.

2. The rush for cross over utility and sports utility vehicles is cooling due to rising gas prices and interest rates (@xGS thanks for taking us back to the 80's...lol. Is it ok if I had said interest rates loom at post-recession highs? Industry experts say we saw an average APR of 6.28% last month. That compares to 5.58% last year. Edmunds also project the average price of a new car is to climb to $36,718 this month. That's the highest figure recorded so far this year). While American manufacturers are concluding that Americans have given up cars and gravitated towards utility vehicles, the Japs don't think so yet. The likes of the Civic, Camry, Sonata, Accord and Corolla are still selling very well. Rushing to the market with a half baked choice between the Pilot and CR-V may prove to be a bad gamble but definitely can be corrected.

3. I still haven't figured out what jumps out on the CR-V that attracts a lot of Americans to it. I know it is relatively or comparatively cheap, has a modest lavish interior, great exterior and plenty of space for cargo behind the 2nd row. I guess a lot of consumers that have been loyal to the Toyota and Honda brands who have enjoyed the reliability of the Camry and Accord but now want to cross over to utility are the ones moving in droves to purchase the CR-V and the RAV-4. I remember I also couldn't find an explanation why the Nissan Rogue became a best seller for months in a row despite the fact it employs CVT. The new RAV-4 has seized that crown and the CR-V also outsold the Rogue in the month of April. With regards to the oil dilution issue, it seems it is not as prevalent as it appears on social media and that the 2019 has less of the issue. No one knows for sure what Honda did in the 2019 to completely fix the issue. With the transmission issues that plagued the Pilot, we know Honda tweaked the software and configuration for 2019. I did read a lot about the issue in this article: Honda CR-V Affected by Engine Troubles - Consumer Reports
 

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Most consumers are not "car guys" so they would have no idea about the CR-V issue. And let's ask the question, the same 1.5L turbo is used in the Civic and Accord. So is the CR-V being "picked on" or it would be a horrible nightmare if that same coverage spread across other Honda models.

And on the CVT, sure it's not awesome like VW's DSG. But consumers want a smooth shifting transmission. Both the Ody and Pilot forms are filled with comments about the 9 speed shifting. It takes a lot of work to make a transmission shift smooth as Honda (and ZF) is still trying to figure it out.

CVT, reliable or not in the ultra long term, makes the customer happy because it's silky EV smooth as a daily commuter.
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
Most consumers are not "car guys" so they would have no idea about the CR-V issue. And let's ask the question, the same 1.5L turbo is used in the Civic and Accord. So is the CR-V being "picked on" or it would be a horrible nightmare if that same coverage spread across other Honda models.

And on the CVT, sure it's not awesome like VW's DSG. But consumers want a smooth shifting transmission. Both the Ody and Pilot forms are filled with comments about the 9 speed shifting. It takes a lot of work to make a transmission shift smooth as Honda (and ZF) is still trying to figure it out.

CVT, reliable or not in the ultra long term, makes the customer happy because it's silky EV smooth as a daily commuter.
...So the issue is also widespread in the Civic as well. However, while the Civic and Accord share the same basic 1.5 Liter engines, they are slightly different. That difference may explain why the issue is rarely seen in the Accord. According to Honda, almost 400,000 CR-Vs and Civics sold in the U.S. will be updated to resolve the gasoline dilution issue in the automaker’s 1.5L direct-injected turbocharged 4-cyl. engines. I italicized 'update' because Honda is not really revealing what they are doing in the "update" and not everyone reports the update has completely solved their problems. Whatever Honda is doing seems to be fixing a significant number though. Service bulletins issued since last November now cover 143,000 ’16-’18 Civics and 239,000 ’17-’18 CR-Vs sold in 21 cold-weather northern states. All ’19 models are being updated at the factory which may explain why the '19s seem to be trouble free...for now. Like I have also mentioned in this forum, these automakers make use of the Pareto rule - the 80/20 rule. If 80% of the vehicles leaving the factory are trouble free, the automaker isn't alarmed with the 20% shouting on the rooftop of issues. It appears again that about 80% or more of the CR-Vs are serving well and sale numbers attest to that.

It appears Honda has gotten its acts together with the 10 speed transmission in the Odyssey and was expecting it in the 2019 Pilot. Instead, they chose to tweak the 9 speed ZF. So far, it is trouble-free in my experience.
 
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