Honda Pilot - Honda Pilot Forums banner

1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
100 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hi, first post! I put on some aftermarket rims & meatier winter tires, and now there is an odd "hoppy" feeling in the whole car. Is this common, or unusual, are some brands of wheels better than others? Any suggestions?? I see people putting all kinds of sizes & types of rims & tires, didn't expect trouble, ~6k mile on Pilot.
I really like the look & feel of it, so sad at this point.

18x8 Helo 894 rims, 5x120, +38 offset, 74.1 hub (vs 64.1 oem). Had a tire like the Falken Wildpeak AT3w put on (made by same mfgr for private label). I really like the tires, they're very quiet.

The 'hoppy' feel is from hi-30smph thru 70s, worse as faster. Felt in whole car & in steering when faster, but not like out-of-balance vibration in steering. Passengers feel it, too. Took 2 of the top guys from the tire shop for rides, they could feel it before I even said anything, top brake/align guy drove it, felt it.

Tire place has done all kinds of balancing techniques, we're using hub-centric rings, exchanged one wheel had a wobble, replaced the tires, replaced an 'out of round' tire. Had it aligned when did the tire/wheels installation, then rechecked. Goes from bad to worse to pretty bad, but can't get rid of the 'hoppy' weird feeling. The tires feel like they're rolling smoothly along, but it's 'hoppy' in the car. I've tried a variety of tire pressures. My tire guy's next suggestion is to put a different type of tire on to see if it's the rims or tires.....

TIA for any advice.
2019 Touring. "Stevie", because of her great tunes. As in Stevie Nicks. ;)
At purchase, added black grill, towing pkg, heated steering wheel.

stevie close up open range tire usm 1024w .jpg 0951 stevie at schwabs rt rr side view new tires rims usm 1024w #0951.jpg 9066 stevie across driveway tires & rims busm 1024w #0966.jpg
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
243 Posts
I suggest that you find a tire shop that has a Hunter tire/wheel balancer. They measure what they refer to as "Road Force" and can quickly diagnose if the tire or wheel are at fault. If you're using hub centering rings of the appropriate size, then the mounting to the vehicle shouldn't be a problem. They are certainly not a premium wheel, but I see that Tire Rack sells them, so I wouldn't think they were prone to problems
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
100 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
I suggest that you find a tire shop that has a Hunter tire/wheel balancer. They measure what they refer to as "Road Force" and can quickly diagnose if the tire or wheel are at fault. If you're using hub centering rings of the appropriate size, then the mounting to the vehicle shouldn't be a problem. They are certainly not a premium wheel, but I see that Tire Rack sells them, so I wouldn't think they were prone to problems
Thanks so much for your reply. Yes, they have been 'road force' balanced multiple times by now. Interestingly, the tire that ended up being out-of-round balanced the best score possible on the road force!

AFAIK, they're using the correct hub centering rings (plastic ones). In all the rims I looked at online & in books these were kind of a compromise on all my favs. These also have a high load rating, 1900#, in case I was wanting to tow a trailer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
My experience with every Honda/Acura I've owned. Anything but a OEM Hondacentric rim ends in tears more than half the time. Seems lots of cars are picky these days even with OEM rims when it comes to tyre choice. I went thru this with my last MDX, found what worked and stuck with it. The "Roadforce" machine in the right hands can work wonders though. GOOD luck, you have way to nice of a car to accept anything less than perfect.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
100 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
My experience with every Honda/Acura I've owned. Anything but a OEM Hondacentric rim ends in tears more than half the time. Seems lots of cars are picky these days even with OEM rims when it comes to tyre choice. I went thru this with my last MDX, found what worked and stuck with it. The "Roadforce" machine in the right hands can work wonders though. GOOD luck, you have way to nice of a car to accept anything less than perfect.
Thanks so much. Yeah, even the 'roadforce' machine hasn't been able to fix this. Rats, the OEM offerings are so limited, and I see so many others using all kinds of odd configurations successfully. Like you said, find what works & stay with it! And Stevie is way too nice not to expect perfection! I've expected that of all my other cars, too.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,829 Posts
The Hunter road force balancer can't "fix" uniformity problems in tires and/or wheels but only minimize the residual imbalance.
What values of road force - what you refer to as "score" - was measured for each tire/wheel combination?
Did the shop orient the tires on the wheels, as indicated by the Hunter machine, in order to optimize balance?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
100 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
The Hunter road force balancer can't "fix" uniformity problems in tires and/or wheels but only minimize the residual imbalance.
What values of road force - what you refer to as "score" - was measured for each tire/wheel combination?
Did the shop orient the tires on the wheels, as indicated by the Hunter machine, in order to optimize balance?
Hi xGS - Yes, I think w/any tire, the balancing is only mitigating that residual imbalance. They've re-oriented tires if needed, re-calibrated the machines beforehand..... I didn't remember the values they mentioned, but they would tell me again if I asked.

(they're very good with me vs some shops that treat women poorly - I have a mechanical background & have found it hard to find good mechanics that treat women w/respect. I've gone there many years, they're used to me even wanting my old '98 v6 accord to be as close to perfect as possible (which she is). Years ago I over-heard one of the guys tell a newbie "she's picky about her car, but she's usually right". lol).

Today went back (since we started w/4 tires, and have gradually added another set to the test) to rebalance the latest 'replacement' - it needed switched out, was totally balanced on 3 machines, re-calibrated first, etc etc - and my first impression is it's not as hoppy at lower speeds, the stronger feeling more in the 50s-70.

Do you have any suggestions of aftermarket rims that a Pilot might accept? I'm beginning to think my Pilot is rejecting the rims, or the rims & hub-centric rings? The tires feel smooth as they roll along, and are quite quiet for a more aggressive tread..... I see so many cool rims everywhere, I hate the idea my Pilot won't accept any....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
243 Posts
My gut feeling is that it is the wheels. I had bought a set of wheels($500+ each) for a Tundra, a few years ago. Even the Hunter machine couldn't them to smooth out. Ended up selling them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
100 Posts
Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
My gut feeling is that it is the wheels. I had bought a set of wheels($500+ each) for a Tundra, a few years ago. Even the Hunter machine couldn't them to smooth out. Ended up selling them.
Yeah...... I'm suspicious it's the wheels, too. So sad.... Now, do I buy another aftermarket set, hope for better results, or go back to the oem & it's 55 offset. I'm really liking this slightly wider stance. :sneaky:

Interestingly, after today's change, it acts now more like a badly balanced tire, worst mid-50s thru 60s, altho still more hoppy than sideways vibration!! Sigh.....

And thru all this confusion, there's been a very odd symptom - go along same speed it calms down some, change speed & it acts up. Much like a separated tire does....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
100 Posts
Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
I have aftermarket wheels with plastic hubcentric rings and so do thousands of other people. No need to settle for OEM. Try the wheels on another car or try another set. Something is wrong with one of your components.
I figure like you said there's thousands who do it, should be no problem.

And yep, that's our plan - next week I'll figure out/order some new rims, try same tires. If not better, change tires (probably haakapalita, maybe falken wildpeak AT3w).

What wheels & tires do you have?
Were the plastidipped ones oem for your pilot, but given a wider stance, thru offset or spacers? And wider stance again in newer rims/tires. Nice.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,829 Posts
Yes, I think w/any tire, the balancing is only mitigating that residual imbalance. They've re-oriented tires if needed, re-calibrated the machines beforehand..... I didn't remember the values they mentioned, but they would tell me again if I asked.
It would help to know the values of road force that were measured.
If they're all on the order of 10, or lower, then the "hoppy" sensation is less likely to be a balance or uniformity problem.
If it's closer to 20, or higher, then you probably need to find different tires and/or wheels.

Today went back (since we started w/4 tires, and have gradually added another set to the test) to rebalance the latest 'replacement' - it needed switched out, was totally balanced on 3 machines, re-calibrated first, etc etc - and my first impression is it's not as hoppy at lower speeds, the stronger feeling more in the 50s-70.

Do you have any suggestions of aftermarket rims that a Pilot might accept? I'm beginning to think my Pilot is rejecting the rims, or the rims & hub-centric rings? The tires feel smooth as they roll along, and are quite quiet for a more aggressive tread...
Looking at what the Tire Rack site shows for compatible aftermarket wheels, and then narrowing it down to an 18" wheel available in black, I'd be inclined to pick the BBS SX.
https://bbs.com/en/products/design_line/SX.php
https://bbs-usa.com/road_wheels/wheel_details.cfm?wheel=111



As for tires, in an all-terrain type tire with the severe snow service qualification, I'd go with the Yokohama Geolandar A/T G015.
https://www.yokohamatire.com/tires/geolandar-a-t-g015

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
100 Posts
Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
It would help to know the values of road force that were measured.
If they're all on the order of 10, or lower, then the "hoppy" sensation is less likely to be a balance or uniformity problem.
If it's closer to 20, or higher, then you probably need to find different tires and/or wheels.


Looking at what the Tire Rack site shows for compatible aftermarket wheels, and then narrowing it down to an 18" wheel available in black, I'd be inclined to pick the BBS SX.
https://bbs.com/en/products/design_line/SX.php
https://bbs-usa.com/road_wheels/wheel_details.cfm?wheel=111



As for tires, in an all-terrain type tire with the severe snow service qualification, I'd go with the Yokohama Geolandar A/T G015.
https://www.yokohamatire.com/tires/geolandar-a-t-g015



I'll have to ask about the road force values. One of the 'problem' tires had had a value of 1, yet was out-of-round.

Thanks for the suggestions - I'll add them to my research. Interesting rim - it doesn't say it's hub size. Mentions CB = PFS. is that center bore = ???.

Tire rack also lists the rims I got as compatible. In fact I used their pics of pilot w/the wheels in my pictorial 'deciding list'. ;)

I see lots of people like the geolander. I've always had studded snows on my accords, haakapalitas or hankooks for many years now, & have loved them. I thought I'd try the Falken Wildpeak-styles for snow & for when I go drive around on NW Mt "dirt"/shale roads. Even tho the set up I have now still doesn't feel perfect, I'm going to drive over the mtn pass mon or tues to try them out in the snow.


The tires I've been curious about: open range on Lt, falken wildpeak AT3w on right. by same mfgr.... Now it looks like I'll be researching again, so thanks for your suggestions.
1575101547119.png 1575101360706.png
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,829 Posts
Tire rack also lists the rims I got as compatible. In fact I used their pics of pilot w/the wheels in my pictorial 'deciding list'.
The Helo wheels might be just fine, but I'm not familiar with them.
BBS has a long history and it's a wheel brand I would have confidence in recommending.


I see lots of people like the geolander. I've always had studded snows on my accords, haakapalitas or hankooks, & have loved them.
If Nokian tires are readily available in your area and you plan to do some off-road driving, then the Rotiiva AT seems like the obvious choice. It also has the severe snow service mark.
https://www.nokiantires.com/all-season-tires/nokian-rotiiva-at/

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
100 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
The Helo wheels might be just fine, but I'm not familiar with them.
BBS has a long history and it's a wheel brand I would have confidence in recommending.
That is the tricky part of these blind internet searches - same website, but maybe not the same quality or compatibility between the brands. I've told a couple of people I want Stevie to be like a show car that can play in the mtns, purty w/a bit of rawwwr.

If Nokian tires are readily available in your area and you plan to do some off-road driving, then the Rotiiva AT seems like the obvious choice. It also has the severe snow service mark.
https://www.nokiantires.com/all-season-tires/nokian-rotiiva-at/

Cool - I saw those yesterday when checking out their tires online. In the FB groups, several people often recommend the Nokians, especially the haakapalitas for snow tires. Thanks for the suggestions... we easily get caught up in our own research, it's nice to see what other people find.

The first haakapalita snow tires I tried were amazing, but a bit too soft/separated easily. The second set I got - outstanding!! Snow, ice, slush, freeway, water puddles - totally excellent. They were harder to get one year so tried some version of the Hankooks, also very excellent in all the above conditions. Now w/the AWD, I'm going to not have studded tires on winter rims for the first time in many many years. Would be nice to have a great winter tire that can be used all year (even tho they'll wear faster d/t the softer compound). These bigger rims/tires are heavier than my back wants to deal with storing seasonally. lol.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
100 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Talked to my tire guy today. Should I replace rims or tires? We've decided to replace the tires first, see if different brand of tires fixes it all. He's thinking the rims are good, something about the tires isn't working out. But Tues I'm going over the mtn pass, will see how these tires do in the snow. ;)
 
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Top