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2023 Pilot vs Mazda CX90/70 vs. ?

67K views 832 replies 49 participants last post by  cintocrunch 
#1 ·
My wife and I are still rocking our 2005 Pilot. We raised our family with it and it is still going strong with 197k. I am looking for a new family car and capacity is less of a factor now since 2 of our 3 kids drive. Usually we only have 2-4 total people riding anymore. I am planning on keeping the 05 for my youngest. We keep our cars a long time so reliability is very important. I love the idea of going smaller for more fuel efficiency and fun to drive characteristics but a smooth quiet ride is also important. What do you think of the new in-line 6 Mazda has coming in the cx90/70? What else is everyone considering?
 
#2 ·
We are also considering the CX-90, in fact it is the only other vehicle we are considering. We will still likely put down a deposit on a Pilot as the CX-90 won't be available until April. The inline 6 is likely glorious but if they are going as far upscale as it sounds then I think it will be more than I am willing to spend.
 
#3 ·
I think Mazda has been working hard to price themselves against Acura, Infiniti and Lexus more than Honda, Nissan and Toyota. Like VW used to do. Not a fan.

I think the straight 6 will be a glorious sounding, feeling and driving motor. I also have serious concerns about Mazdas ability to make reliable vehicles since I know many people who have a CX-5 and love them and have had serious work (multiple with transmissions replaced) done to them.

I suspect the CX-90 will be a very nice vehicle, possibly nicer than the Pilot. But if it's smaller in size I won't consider it.
 
#4 ·
Glad to see others like me out there. I am considering the MDX, the new Pilot, and the yet to be revealed CX90. I'm intrigued by the RWD architecture and the new in-line 6 cylinder. I sincerely hope it is not a turbo and is naturally aspirated like the Honda. That being said, the Pilot comes with a new NA V6 that is DOHC and has the torque vectoring AWD system as an ace up its sleeve. It is unlikely for Mazda to offer a torque vectoring rear diff. It may also be relatively less space efficient compared to the Pilot. We'll know soon in January when they reveal it.
 
#10 ·
As many of you know, I had an 05 for over 260k.

Now both my kids have moved out, one got a Subaru, which actually surprised me. Solid feeling, great handling.
The other got a Mazda Cx30. Now for a near bottom of the range, but its a really impressively designed and built car. Its somewhere between a VW an an Audi in quality or a Honda and an Acura depending on your preferences. The seats are incredibly comfortable. Mazda has a pretty simply powertrain line up, but there is nothing wrong with that.
 
#25 ·
There are cars from Mazda, Toyota, Hyundai/Kia that I prefer or find reliable. CX-90 would be huge upgrade but would cost. Telluride/Palisade offer best interior for money. Pilot offers slightly better engine and much better FWD based AWD system. CX-90 would have RWD based AWD system, so it's definitely going to be better. Once you add more features, bells and whistles, there are more things to break. Turbo, electric motors add complexity and weight. It comes down to what you want and want to pay for it.
 
#26 ·
For me, it is a three-way race between the new Pilot, the new Mazda CX90, and the Acura MDX. If the Mazda, exceeds $50k, it is entering Acura territory and it better be good.

As much as I like the Hyundai/Kia SUVs, I am not totally sold on their long-term reliability. I did own a Kia before and of all my car purchases, the Kia is the one I regret the most and hate the most, second only to the Mitsubishi Galant I had during college.
 
#37 ·
There is no way to make a real comparison but Mazda announced Australia pricing on the CX-60. Again, too many variables to make direct comparisons but the only stretch comparison was that it starts at $8k more than an upper trim CX-5. Australia is also slated to get the CX-90 so I would imagine CX-90 pricing would be higher than the CX-60. But again, all speculation just for the sake of conversation.
 
#44 ·
Generally, I've been a "Honda guy" since I was 9 or 10 years old. I've owned more Honda and Honda-powered products than anything else over the decades. Historically, I've traded for a new vehicle every year on average (that trend may have come to an end based on the what's happened in the economy and automotive industry over the last couple of years, but that's a different story for a different day). I was very pleased with my Honda products up until about 2016 when I started noticing a significant decline in quality. Before this time, most of my Hondas never required a warranty repair whether I owned them for three months or four years. Since then, they've needed 2-3 warranty repairs, some major (like the transmission in my '19 Ridgeline), and with some features that simply don't work and can't be made to work such as the automatic high beams and wireless charger in my '21 Ridgeline. My honeymoon with Honda ended several years ago, but I still buy Ridgelines because there's still nothing else comparable even after 17 years on the market. If not for the Ridgeline, I would no longer own a Honda. My previous vehicle was a 2020 CX-5 which was the most perfect automobile I've ever owned next to the 2019 MX-5 Miata that I still own. The Mazdas are clearly assembly with more care and precision. One example of this is the seam sealer around the doors, engine compartment, etc. On my Hondas, it looks like it was applied by a spastic child. On my Mazdas, it looks like it was applied by a brain surgeon.
 
#45 ·
Not to derail but I will... I'm pretty enamored by the Maverick. I know, it's smaller and has lower towing and payload ratings but it would still accomplish everything I need it to do and is way cheaper than the Ridgeline. Plus I kind of like the looks, like what I wish the Ranger looked like (since it looks to me like a modern take on our '06 Ranger).

I also averaged one car per year for most of my driving career, but kids and house payments put a quick stop to that. I've owned a lot of brands, manufactured over many years (earliest I've regularly driven other than classics being my '96 Accord). And I pay attention in a LOT of other peoples' vehicles when in them or driving them. Honestly, the vehicle I perceived to be the highest build quality of everything I've driven was my '06 Accord Sedan EX-L K24 5MT. It's for that reason that I still regularly search for the fabled 6-6 version of that car to try and find a low mileage version (or a TL-S with the waffle weave wheels). Everything felt extremely high quality, everything had weight to my interaction with it making it feel like great care was taken to design and construct how I would interact with the vehicle. I went from that to a GMT900 Silverado LS that was held together with tobacco dip spit and paper mache, though it had its charm.

If I'm honest, I get a lot of that type of impression in our '15 Pilot, but I know the issues some have had with VCM and it does have some clear quality issues that make me scratch my head (replaced the cupholder rubber and it's ripping again after a year, the seat plastic has separated in front of the controls, etc.). It feels much closer to that Accord than to my '14 Traverse (just waiting to push the window switch into the door at some point) but both have been reliable for us for over 4 years and lots of family truckster abuse.

Personally I think some of the best cars were produced between '96 and '15. Now they all have too many computers and sensors and other BS that are all reliability risks and make cars cost way too much money to keep on the road. And I also believe that at this point none of the current cars can be directly correlated to the reliability of their predecessors, so I generally suggest getting the car you like the most.

/rant.
 
#48 ·
If I were looking to buy today my choice would be a 2017 Toyota Highlander or a 2022 KIA Telluride. we own a Lexus Nx200t with a Turbo and I will not buy anything again with a turbo. Oil gets dirty fast. Change my Mobil 1 every 6,000 miles if you plan on keeping it. Sparkplugs have to be changed every 40,000 miles to keep emissions warranty. The new 2023 Toyota Highlander as well as Lexus RX350 will now only come with 4cy turbos. Today's new cars are not built to be long term keepers.
 
#53 ·
I do. Part of me feels just to continue being a one car household with my Camry. Spouse and I are able to manage with one car and it is ample car with 2 small kids. All I am doing is oil change, tire rotation, and the routine maintenance. It's been bullet proof so far and I intent to keep it for as along as possible.
 
#57 ·
Hopefully, but based on my experiences and those of others over the past several years with products coming from Honda Manufacturing of Alabama, I'm concerned.

Whether it's luck or there's actually something to it, my Japanese and Canadian-built automobiles have been better built than my American-built automobiles.
 
#64 ·
I went from 2011 Honda Pilot to 2018 Jeep Grand Cherokee Trailhawk. I've been 100% satisfied with the Jeep and would make the decision to purchase it again today.

Take a look at the Jeep Grand Cherokee, especially used 2018-2022 WK2 models. WL is the new generation.

I saw lots of AWD discussion here. The Jeep GC is superior to the alternatives mentioned here, especially if a model equipped with rear-ELSD (Trailhawk, and Off Road Group package equipped models I think Summit, Overland, High Altitude).
 
#67 ·
I think that ruturaj is referring to the torque vectoring improving on-road handling. I am not aware that Jeep has that.

The Jeeps well-known for off-road capabiiities, so they win there.

Don't konw f you noticed, but the Trailsport is getting close to 50/50 weight distribution. The extra weight of the full size spare and the beefier differential system may be why.

I am more confident in the Pilot to run. I had a Grand Cherokee once. Once.
 
#83 ·
My wife and I looked at a 2020 GX460 today and also a new Grand Cherokee. The seats in the 460 felt pretty amazing but the rear side swinging door is a big negative in my opinion. We are going to look at a new one next week to rule it in or out.

The Grand Cherokee was a limited and it was decent inside until we stopped by the Honda dealer on the way home. They had a 2022 Elite Passport in the show room. When we both hopped in the Passport my wife quickly said she liked it a lot more than the Jeep. It was funny because I was thinking the exact same thing. It’s about $5000 less than the Jeep to boot. Obviously if you need serious off road capabilities the Jeep is superior.

Would it be foolish to try to make a deal on the 22 Passport? They had 2023 Passports on the lot and they are only around 800 more than the 22. They did not have any 23 Pilots on the lot but have a bunch coming in March. Several already have deposit on them.
 
#84 ·
Look at MDX and RDX as well. Personally I haven't been a big fan of 9 speed in passport, that's why I waited for 10 speed. If you are going to keep the car anything less than 10 years, then get 2023. I would rather actually wait a year for new passport based on new pilot if I was in market for passport.
 
#91 · (Edited)
This is what I’m thinking. I found a dealer not that far from me offering $3500 off a 2022 Passport. I’m thinking I can get more off. As others have pointed out I saw a bunch of 22 Pilots on the lot. We like the idea of not going much bigger than our 05 Pilot so that was appeal to passport. I also like the way it looks. The 23 Pilot is quite a bit larger which is obviously great for most people.
 
#87 ·
Where I live, there're hordes of new 2022 Pilots sitting on dealer lots, all overpriced. I don't see any desire to move them. I just counted over 70 Pilots from a quick search of Autotrader. No single 2023 Pilot for sale, I doubt dealers are eager to order 2023s, not with the inventory they are sitting on.
 
#89 · (Edited)
They aren't going to sell quickly, especially if they don't offer a discount. IMO the 2023 is a significantly different and better model and will be more desired. It is notably larger and better looking. Everyone has seen the current 2022 style on the road for years and daresay I think it looks a bit dated and boring at this point. There are times where the new model is a step backward, for example the 2010 Odyssey vs 2011 with the controversial Lightning Bolt style, and in that case for me at least, as soon as the 2011 was announced it cemented my decision that I wanted to get a 2010 while I still could. In my opinion at least, I don't think that will be the case in the 2022 vs 2023 changeover, for most people at least
 
#94 ·
For the money you save on a 22 your getting a dated platform that did not do so well in the IIHS upgraded crash test and some will say it looks to much like a minivan. I still like the rear design of the 22 vs the 23 but that's it. Interior design and refinements speak for themselves and engine and AWD refinements are also a good thing. Plus I'm sure it will ace new crash standards. To me its worth the extra money. But like CRV to get a nicely equipped model your into the 50-55k range. Wecome to new cars 2023 and Honda marketing.
 
#97 ·
I have a 2021 Mazda CX9 which is serving us well but with 3 kids ages 5-9, the 3rd row having no AC vents is becoming a bigger deal than I initially thought when buying.

Also cargo space behind 3rd row while up is now lacking a lot for us with our kids in sports etc.

I am curious to see if new CX90 is bigger and more spacious.

I do have to say the cx9 is a blast to drive. Interior has a nice semi luxury feel and fit/Finish is great compare to our 1st model year 2018 Odyssey we had a few years ago which was pretty bad, tho not has bad as the fit and finish on our prior 2019 Chevy Tahoe.
 
#99 ·
Saw some comments on the Pentastar vs. J35 reliability... My mom has a Wrangler so I follow a lot of those forums as well... I'd say the Pentastar and ZF 8 speed have a better track record in the last decade than the J35 with any of its transmissions. No cylinder deactivation issues, no transmission issues, really not much to speak of at all. Some wranglers have an oil leak at the oil cooler.

Personally I'd give the Grand Cherokee L a hard look, I think the price difference might be hard to overcome and my trust in the electronics is not as good as my trust in the drivetrain.
 
#100 ·
....I'm also considering the grand Highlander. Toyota designs have been more bold and their infotainment has been fairly large if u look at the new crown, prius.
Honda definitely took the safe approach with redesign of civic, crv and pilot
my question is price point but if I'm going for a pilot elite then it's possible grand Highlander nom hybrid engine would start at similar price of the 23 pilot top trims which is already pushing my budget but may work for me

I'm just having second thoughts bout spending $61k cad ( pre tax and fees) on the pilot elite when it doesn't wow me like the feeling I had when I bought the 2019 RDX .

it's possible it won't release for a full year but I guess I can wait for the Feb 8 reveal.
 
#104 · (Edited)
....I'm also considering the grand Highlander. Toyota designs have been more bold and their infotainment has been fairly large if u look at the new crown, prius.
Honda definitely took the safe approach with redesign of civic, crv and pilot
my question is price point but if I'm going for a pilot elite then it's possible grand Highlander nom hybrid engine would start at similar price of the 23 pilot top trims which is already pushing my budget but may work for me

I'm just having second thoughts bout spending $61k cad ( pre tax and fees) on the pilot elite when it doesn't wow me like the feeling I had when I bought the 2019 RDX .

it's possible it won't release for a full year but I guess I can wait for the Feb 8 reveal.
Yeah. With the CX90 reveal in a few weeks this month, the Grand Highlander the following month, its worth the wait. I think Toyota has upped its game with their 14" infotainment screen, upgraded graphics and advanced driver aids in TSS 3.0, which was an area they seriously trailed the competition. I also think they cannot afford to price the Grand Highlander more than a couple of hundred or thousand dollars more than the Telluride XPro or Pilot Elite, mainly because it would be hybridized, so add $1750-2000 more. But expect better horsepower, torque and mileage numbers than the Pilot plus arguably competitive passenger/ cargo volume, technology and convenience features, this would create for tough choices. As for the CX90, my only reservation is that it's cargo and passenger volume, especially the third row would only be marginally better than the CX-9, it might be closer to the current Ascent dimensions, and not compete with the Pilot/Telluride, otherwise expect it to compete shoulder to shoulder with the Pilot in all other metrics. Its only a few weeks, we'll find out.
 
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