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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
Isn't that their fault for not keeping some funds in reserve to cover the cost of vehicle maintenance?
They also get taken in by car salesmen who ask what monthly payment can you afford and who tell them that their trade-in will cover the down payment, so we can put you behind the wheel of this brand new 2021 Whateveritiz, today.
The wife is happy because she gets to drive a new vehicle and show it off to the other moms at the soccer field, while the husband is happy because his wife is happy.
Neither one is thinking about the day, 7-years/105K-miles from now, when the major service is due.
They probably don't imagine keeping the vehicle that long.


Spend $1,200 on a timing belt job and you have nothing to show for it.
Who ever asked if you want to see their new timing belt? Trust me, she's a real beauty.
You're missing the point. Just because you and I know vehicles still require maintenance does not mean anyone else does. Most new vehicles are sold as "low maintenance" or "lifetime transmission fluid" or "15,000 mile oil changes". People don't think cars require maintenance anymore. Yes, it's entirely their fault for not doing the research and understanding what the vehicles require but I completely understand how and why they do and don't hold it against them.

Well for one it doesn't have a CVT transmission.
(y)

Or a turbo!
(y)(y) Even though Chevy did offer the 2.0T on the Traverse (Enclave's cousin) for a couple years but killed it. I believe the smaller Acadia and XT6 both have the 2.0T as an engine choice.

Haha, gotta love Consumer Reports! It's great toilet paper in an emergency.

Do we have any data showing how well MY2003 vehicles from various manufacturers are holding up?
I think the farthest their used charts go back is 7 or 8 years. I guess they assume after that cars are disposable and not worth writing about?

Wow, that's right, I forgot. Times are changing.
But I don't think any Enclave will ever look as good as your Pilot...
 

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Haha, gotta love Consumer Reports! It's great toilet paper in an emergency.
CR's reliability scores are based on owner reports - not CR's opinion. Do you believe that GM owners are failing to report problems while Honda owners are making up failures to report?

I also included J.D. Power ratings as another source. Do you believe that automakers pay J.D. Power for those ratings? They don't, but even if they did, why would Stellantis, for example, pay up for Dodge while leaving Chrysler and Jeep (their most valuable brand) at the bottom?

We can bury our heads in the sand all we want, but reliability is no longer a given with Honda. The Pilot, Passport, and Odyssey are among Honda's least reliable models. What do they have in common? They're all made at Honda Manufacturing of Alabama.
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
CR's reliability scores are based on owner reports - not CR's opinion. Do you believe that GM owners are failing to report problems while Honda owners are making up failures to report?

I also included J.D. Power ratings as another source. Do you believe that automakers pay J.D. Power for those ratings? They don't, but even if they did, why would Stellantis, for example, pay up for Dodge while leaving Chrysler and Jeep (their most valuable brand) at the bottom?

We can bury our heads in the sand all we want, but reliability is no longer a given with Honda. The Pilot, Passport, and Odyssey are among Honda's least reliable models. What do they have in common? They're all made at Honda Manufacturing of Alabama.
Oh, I certainly don't view Honda (or Toyota) with rose colored glasses. I also don't trust CR or JD Power or pretty much any of the toilet paper rags and their ratings. Sorry if you work in that industry but I find it highly untrustworthy and the first thing I tell people consulting me when buying a car is to not make any decisions based on them. My recommendation is always to go on the forums, see what kind of common problems are popping up and get what you like knowing what common problems there are. I do a lot of preventative maintenance on all of my vehicles and I haven't really had any major failure points across many different brands and vehicles. Either PM is the key or I've been lucky or some combination of both.

I wouldn't hesitate to get a 2022 Enclave or a 2021 Pilot, it all depends on which one I like better at the time. Same for a Durango (love the idea of an R/T), Palisade, Telluride, 2022 Pathfinder, etc. There are a couple "features" I dislike and rules out certain vehicles, like miniature 3rd row seats, turbocharged 4 cylinders, CVTs, etc.
 

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CR's reliability scores are based on owner reports - not CR's opinion. Do you believe that GM owners are failing to report problems while Honda owners are making up failures to report?

I also included J.D. Power ratings as another source. Do you believe that automakers pay J.D. Power for those ratings? They don't, but even if they did, why would Stellantis, for example, pay up for Dodge while leaving Chrysler and Jeep (their most valuable brand) at the bottom?

We can bury our heads in the sand all we want, but reliability is no longer a given with Honda. The Pilot, Passport, and Odyssey are among Honda's least reliable models. What do they have in common? They're all made at Honda Manufacturing of Alabama.
That's why I bought a Highlander!
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
That's why I bought a Highlander!
I guess the manufacturing plant employees in Indiana do a pretty good job!

Our Pilot and Sonata were both born in Alabama and have both been good to us. The Traverse is a true Michigan-born American vehicle. My '61 Impala was born I believe in my backyard, in Baltimore.
 

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I guess the manufacturing plant employees in Indiana do a pretty good job!

Our Pilot and Sonata were both born in Alabama and have both been good to us. The Traverse is a true Michigan-born American vehicle. My '61 Impala was born I believe in my backyard, in Baltimore.
I don't know if its just the employees but Toyota AND the employees. There are things I like about my Gen 2 Pilot more than the HL, namely space and easier(to me) to use infotainment. Additionally, while the HL has both direct and port injection, I think my port injected Gen 2 Pilot sounds more satisfying.

That said, when we were looking to at another vehicle last fall, I read about alot of trouble the Gen 3 Pilot's issues with infotainment, injectors, transmission etc. with the known issue of VCM and I wasn't real keen about having 2 Honda's with rubber timing belt maintenance requirements.

I currently have an old GM Mastercard with declining rebates(currently about $2,900 left on it) but even that just isn't worth going GM again. It seems Ms. Barra is more interested in social/environmental justice/increasing profits while cutting costs as opposed to trying to build quality vehicles not only that people want to buy, but also vehicles people DO NOT REGRET having bought 12-18 months later.
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
Additionally, while the HL has both direct and port injection, I think my port injected Gen 2 Pilot sounds more satisfying.
You touch on an interesting point with that one. Am I the only one who dislikes how loud modern engines are? Some high pressure pumps are getting quieter but some sound like tractors or clattery diesels at idle. Nothing is less refined than a cold start on my mom's GLC300, not very befitting the leather and matte finished wood.
 

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You're missing the point. Just because you and I know vehicles still require maintenance does not mean anyone else does. Most new vehicles are sold as "low maintenance" or "lifetime transmission fluid" or "15,000 mile oil changes". People don't think cars require maintenance anymore. Yes, it's entirely their fault for not doing the research and understanding what the vehicles require but I completely understand how and why they do and don't hold it against them.
Those must be the people who never read the owner's manual and therefore never notice that there is still a section on maintenance.
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
Those must be the people who never read the owner's manual and therefore never notice that there is still a section on maintenance.
You need to look at the owner's manual on modern cars. The maintenance section amounts to how to check the fluids they still actually let you check and says to take it to the dealer if anything is wrong. Far cry from the days when they would actually give you instructions on how to change all of the fluids in the vehicle and a few more random items.
 
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You need to look at the owner's manual on modern cars. The maintenance section amounts to how to check the fluids they still actually let you check and says to take it to the dealer if anything is wrong. Far cry from the days when they would actually give you instructions on how to change all of the fluids in the vehicle and a few more random items.
The one's I've checked still have a maintenance schedule - or tell you to follow the maintenance minder.
Some vehicles also have a 'quick start guide' that is slanted toward vehicle operation, rather than care and feeding.
Some have a separate document covering the recommended maintenance schedule.
The only vehicle I've ever bought that came with the full service manual was a 1980 Honda Accord.
 

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You touch on an interesting point with that one. Am I the only one who dislikes how loud modern engines are? Some high pressure pumps are getting quieter but some sound like tractors or clattery diesels at idle. Nothing is less refined than a cold start on my mom's GLC300, not very befitting the leather and matte finished wood.
I'm not sure what it is. I've driven new Ridgelines with the Direct Injection J series V6 and though the same thing, that my Gen 2 Pilot sounds better. I thought it could be a combination of Direct Injection and the lack of dual exhaust(both my Highlander and the Ridgeline I test drove.) The 2021 Ridgelines have dual exhaust in addition to looking far less like a chopped minivan. I may reconsider the Ridgeline when its time.
 

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A friend of mine just bought a new 2021 Titan. Another friend has a newish F-250 diesel. The engines sounds very similar. I'm amazed at how quiet some of the new diesels are.
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
I'm not sure what it is. I've driven new Ridgelines with the Direct Injection J series V6 and though the same thing, that my Gen 2 Pilot sounds better. I thought it could be a combination of Direct Injection and the lack of dual exhaust(both my Highlander and the Ridgeline I test drove.) The 2021 Ridgelines have dual exhaust in addition to looking far less like a chopped minivan. I may reconsider the Ridgeline when its time.
Well if you aren't buying in the next year you may be able to look at the '22 Pilot and the Ridgeline (maybe '23?) when they move to the new platform.

A friend of mine just bought a new 2021 Titan. Another friend has a newish F-250 diesel. The engines sounds very similar. I'm amazed at how quiet some of the new diesels are.
It seems like everyone's first gen DI engine is loud and they get quieter as they go. My Traverse is the first gen GM DI V6, my neighbor has a brand new Traverse that is substantially quieter with the revised V6. My dad's '20 Sierra has almost none of the ticking or diesel sounds that his '15 Silverado has, both with the 5.3. Hopefully manufacturers are figuring out how to quiet them down.
 
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I would not touch a GM car with a 10 foot pole without 100K extended warranty. It will be more luxurious and posh than any Pilot trim and honestly, all Acura trims. Cadillac ride included, if you are into that sort of thing. Sporty it won't be. I was a big fan of previous generations, this one looks ugly (no offense). I would most likely go for Acura or Lexus or Benz/BMW. Kia has some killer options. I think the styling on this model is a huge miss.
I can't stand the Lexus and other Toyota's Star Trek styling.
BMW's have the highest rate of depreciation on the planet. The driving experience is great though. I spoke to some BMW techs at a diner and they said keep one until the factory bumper to bumper warranty nearly runs out and run. They don't drive one.
 

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We needed a truly usable 3rd row
All the car sales people thought I was crazy when shopping back in 2011. The first thing I would do was sit in the 3rd row. If it passed, I moved to the 2nd, and then finally started looking at the vehicle how most people would. It was crazy how fast I was able to remove almost ALL vehicles.

At the time (early 2011), it between the Explorer (new for that year) and the Pilot. I like to keep my vehicles a long time and refuse to pay MSRP or even close. Pilot was the easy choice between the two.
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
All the car sales people thought I was crazy when shopping back in 2011. The first thing I would do was sit in the 3rd row. If it passed, I moved to the 2nd, and then finally started looking at the vehicle how most people would. It was crazy how fast I was able to remove almost ALL vehicles.

At the time (early 2011), it between the Explorer (new for that year) and the Pilot. I like to keep my vehicles a long time and refuse to pay MSRP or even close. Pilot was the easy choice between the two.
Yup, same here. My opinion doesn't count for much being 6'3" but my wife would climb back there and have me sit in front of her. She'd operate the seats. She valued the amount of storage available with the 3rd row up. These things really do matter to some buyers.
 
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