Honda Pilot - Honda Pilot Forums banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Just speculation here but multiple people have reported that dealers won't have the 2017 model year available until December of 2016. Considering the 2016 came out in the summer of 2016, there has been at least a 2 month delay for the 2017s. I know Apple Car Play and Android Auto have been discussed as changes, but I'm wondering if there isn't been something else. Is there any chance Honda's 10-Speed tranny will be ready for the 2017 Touring and Elite models? That would account for some of the delay. I would pull the trigger in early 2017 if they get rid of the ZF 9-Speed, I just don't want to deal with the headaches.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
150 Posts
You seem pretty certain that a new 10 speed would be without problems, how do you know it won't just exchange one set of headaches for another? Then then you have a huge # of the owners pissed...three different transmissions, each with some issues and by just switching transmissions nothing ever gets resolved. You have to pick one and fix the problems.

In my opinion, the 2016 pilot lacked serious testing in various aspects from infotainment to transmissions. Honda dropped the ball, or boulder rather I think would be more accurate, with the 2016 Pilot
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
79 Posts
Just speculation here but multiple people have reported that dealers won't have the 2017 model year available until December of 2016. Considering the 2016 came out in the summer of 2016, there has been at least a 2 month delay for the 2017s. I know Apple Car Play and Android Auto have been discussed as changes, but I'm wondering if there isn't been something else. Is there any chance Honda's 10-Speed tranny will be ready for the 2017 Touring and Elite models? That would account for some of the delay. I would pull the trigger in early 2017 if they get rid of the ZF 9-Speed, I just don't want to deal with the headaches.
I would suggest to keep away from 17 pilot with all fancy trannys! It's always not good to take chancses given that there are so many issues with 16 pilots! All the issues reported are short term issues, u know Neva what happens once the vechicles reach 50k or 60k miles? I am looking to off load my 16 touring, it's still with dealer after tranny replacement. No one knows what the issue is as of today, they were able to replicate the issue but can't find where the issue is coming from!!!! This is my 3rd time and 4th week with the dealer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
363 Posts
Didn't the 2016 come out in 2015? :confused:

If you don't want a ZF transmission just get a LX or an EX and then you would have not have the 9 speed in it. :smile:

BigDozer66
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
79 Posts
I heard/read somewhere that Honda developing a 11-speed transmission, not 10.
Both accurate.

They have already developed the 10 speed transmission and the Pilot/Ridgeline would probably be the first place we see it, just would it be 2017 or 2018/19.

http://www.autonews.com/article/20151026/OEM04/151029875/honda-readies-volley-of-new-drivetrain-tech

Technology Preview: We Drive Honda's 10-Speed Automatic Transmission


They have also patented - ie. very early stages - an 11 speed - 3 clutch transmission, which is probably something for the 4th gen pilot.


Honda 11-speed automatic 3-clutch transmission patent news
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,104 Posts
AWD Flyer said:
You seem pretty certain that a new 10 speed would be without problems, how do you know it won't just exchange one set of headaches for another?
My thoughts exactly. 1st "production" year with yet another new transmission, no one knows what surprises it will bring? Although, hopefully Honda learned something from the ZF's failures. BTW we should also thank our govt. and the EPA for the ZF AT.
AWD Flyer said:
In my opinion, the 2016 pilot lacked serious testing in various aspects from infotainment to transmissions. Honda dropped the ball, or boulder rather I think would be more accurate, with the 2016 Pilot
Yeah given a delivery price of $51K & change... I'm surprised and certainly not pleased by all the nickle & dime issues my not-so Elite is plagued with and plan to unload it before the 3/yr. 36K mfg. warranty has expired.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
283 Posts
There is talk of a 10 speed but that tranny will not be until atleast 2018 from what dealers are being told.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
109 Posts
ZF js one of the largest auto transmission designers and manufacturers in the world. Honda on the other hand is small potatoes in transmissions. What makes one think that Honda will be able to build a better and more reliable transmission? Honda doesn't have a good history in transmissions either. Honda has a history of bad transmissions in the Odyssey and Accord.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,611 Posts
ZF made a creative engineering choice to meet their packaging goals and make the 9-speed transmission short enough to be used in a wide range of transverse layout (FWD) applications. IMO, that choice is biting them in the a$$. Honda is taking a different, more conventional approach in terms of the mechanical engineering for their 10-speed transverse layout transmission, but they still have a big job to write software for the thing. Who knows when it will be ready to be unleashed on the public, or how well behaved it will be when that happens. ZF makes some great transmissions, especially for longitudinal layout (RWD) vehicles, but everyone has a bad day now and then.

But I'm not gonna hold my breath on any different transmission appearing in Pilot anytime soon. If Honda swallowed their pride and put the existing 6-speed in Pilot Touring/Elite going forward, I'd be pushing and shoving to get in line to buy one. Love the Honda 6-speed in my wife's 2014 MDX. Hate the ZF 9-speed in my 2016 Pilot. ( And it has infested 2016+ MDX too! ) I never really thought about automatic transmissions very much until I bought my 2016 Pilot Touring. I think that's kinda how it's supposed to be... you don't have to think about it very much! It's kinda... automatic! /end rant
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
110 Posts
From what I read in one industry publication, Honda is locked in with the ZF 9HP through 2017. Once the agreement ends, they will likely switch to their in-house 10-speed unit.

Honda must be getting a very good price on the ZF 9HP for sticking with it on the Pilot, MDX and upcoming Odyssey.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,104 Posts
ZF js one of the largest auto transmission designers and manufacturers in the world. Honda on the other hand is small potatoes in transmissions. What makes one think that Honda will be able to build a better and more reliable transmission? Honda doesn't have a good history in transmissions either. Honda has a history of bad transmissions in the Odyssey and Accord.
I've owned (6) Accords equipped w/ATs. Never had a single problem w/the AT in any one of them. :confused:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
337 Posts
Cars are not smartphones there's almost no changes unless it's a mid cycle refresh or a full refresh. It's not a simple swap in. There's a lot of testing and regulations. It won't be another 3 years before you see any changes. You'll probably see it in the Acura mdx years before it is put in the pilot.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
109 Posts
I have driven the Hyland with the 6 speed and also the Honda 6 speed and compared to the 9 speed is smoother when it shifts but the lag on pickup and downshifts when you floor it is awful compared to the 9 speed. The 9 speed shifts more because it has more gears and the ten speed will be no different. It is a double edge sword. Either you get more gears and more shifts or less shifts but a less responsive vehicle when you give it the beans.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
109 Posts
ZF js one of the largest auto transmission designers and manufacturers in the world. Honda on the other hand is small potatoes in transmissions. What makes one think that Honda will be able to build a better and more reliable transmission? Honda doesn't have a good history in transmissions either. Honda has a history of bad transmissions in the Odyssey and Accord.
I've owned (6) Accords equipped w/ATs. Never had a single problem w/the AT in any one of them.
Just because you didn't have problems doesn't mean it didn't exist. Google and read various Honda Accord forums.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
Just because you didn't have problems doesn't mean it didn't exist. Google and read various Honda Accord forums.
And just because it exists on the forums, doesn't mean it's a widespread problem. There is no statistical data to show the defective vs. non-defective.
We just know that the problem on 9 Speeds that people have had were at first software shift point issues, and now a transmission heater failure.

But the WHINE factor on the internet is LOUD and CLEAR. Also the CONSPIRACY theorists, ENGINEERS are IDIOTS, and MY problems are YOUR problems are very prevalent on the internet.

23,000 miles on my Elite and it's still pretty much Elite.
I bought an Apple at the supermarket today and it was rotten.. What is wrong with those people! They should hand check every apple and scan them daily.

I would not hesitate to buy another Pilot with a 6 speed or 9 speed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
79 Posts
And just because it exists on the forums, doesn't mean it's a widespread problem. There is no statistical data to show the defective vs. non-defective.
We just know that the problem on 9 Speeds that people have had were at first software shift point issues, and now a transmission heater failure.

But the WHINE factor on the internet is LOUD and CLEAR. Also the CONSPIRACY theorists, ENGINEERS are IDIOTS, and MY problems are YOUR problems are very prevalent on the internet.

23,000 miles on my Elite and it's still pretty much Elite.
I bought an Apple at the supermarket today and it was rotten.. What is wrong with those people! They should hand check every apple and scan them daily.

I would not hesitate to buy another Pilot with a 6 speed or 9 speed.
Comparing an apple and a $48k car is really relevant and helpful!

There have been 4 or 5 posters who have made very similar proclamations are you - 25k miles and no problems, what is everyone *****ing about! - and then a month later they have had their transmission replaced. There is a recall on the same transmission with other automakers, I think people being cautious before jumping in, are being smart and thoughtful in what is a major purchase.

If we think, well, Honda will issue a recall if it is impacting more than forum posters, well, how did that work with the airbag situation?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
The price of the car has nothing to do with anything. 100k Mercedes and BMW have issues that 15k cars have.

It's not the cost of the car. It's an unrealistic expectation of perfection in a technological environment that is in constant evolution and invention.

Is the 2017 that same as the 2016 model? Yes and no.. A little tweak here and there. Hopefully to improve things, sometimes it's a step backwards.

Unless you make the exact same vehicle for many years and just fix each problem, there will always be some sort of issue.

Consumers get bored with a design, so automakers are always changing, updating, and redesigning them. Should we blame consumers for higher chances of a transmission failure? Which, we still don't know what that chance is. Should MPG just stay at a certain mark? No, they cannot because of the CAFE requirements.

It's way more complicated than saying ZF rushed this, and Honda signed off on that. These companies are all moving forward with new tech and sometimes it works great, like direct injection, satellite radio, etc.. and other things are not what we expect or where we think they should be.

It's the price of admission to an amazing world.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,611 Posts
It's the price of admission to an amazing world.
Oh, please. When you finish with the technologically assisted self-pleasuring, perhaps we can have a serious conversation.

From a technology and ecological salvation perspective, I'm far more interested in what Honda and others are doing with hydrogen fuel-cell vehicles. Of course, it would be helpful to have a distribution system for the fuel and a sustainable means of generating it. Until those technologies come on-line we are stuck with burning dino-fuel to get where we want to go, but trying to increase efficiency of that mature technology is like trying to squeeze blood out of a turnip.

But we digress from the topic of this thread. The reason some potential buyers ( and a few current owners ) are anxious about the deployment of Honda's 10-speed transmission is that the stop-gap ZF 9HP is a disappointment. We can argue ad nauseam about who's at fault, and there is a strong argument to be made that the failures related to engine coolant contamination aren't ZF's fault ( unless they make the heat exchanger ), but the unpredictable and occasionally bizarre behavior of the thing remains. It's a shame, because IMO the rest of the powertrain is amazing.

Granted, consumers are fickle, and what they need is seldom what they want, but change for the sake of change does not constitute progress. I fear our marketing driven economy will be the death of us all, but that most certainly is a topic for another venue.

For now, I'm just gonna keep on driving my somewhat flawed dino-fueled Pilot like I stole it, and hope for the best!

Happy Trails.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,104 Posts
And just because it exists on the forums, doesn't mean it's a widespread problem. There is no statistical data to show the defective vs. non-defective.
We just know that the problem on 9 Speeds that people have had were at first software shift point issues, and now a transmission heater failure.

But the WHINE factor on the internet is LOUD and CLEAR. Also the CONSPIRACY theorists, ENGINEERS are IDIOTS, and MY problems are YOUR problems are very prevalent on the internet.

23,000 miles on my Elite and it's still pretty much Elite.
Pretty much my same experience with the ZF 9 speed AT. Since the software update was applied I haven't incurred any strange shifting behavior with the AT. I have 12,000(+) miles on my Pilot and the engine/powertrain/brakes et. al., seem to be working just fine. For a large (7) passenger SUV my Pilot provides good acceleration, is smooth/quite to drive and reasonably agile.

Most individuals (myself included) tend to post negative issues in forums like this. Generally to vent frustrations or seek relief/remedies for an issue.

Given Honda provides a 5 year 60K mile warranty for the powertrain, why worry about what may (but is not likely to) go wrong?
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top