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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello!

I'm looking for a sanity check on my plan. Problem and plan described below - feedback appreciated.

Background
So... I just bought a previously owned 2017 EXL with 69K miles and immediately took it on a 6500m road trip - 16 days. About 1000 miles in, I noticed a weird shift issue. At 47 to 49 mph there's a distinct wobble in the shifting. Like a fight between I think (2nd and 3rd). The tach wobbles up and down 100 to 200 rpms as well. There are some other indications at different shift points and temperatures too, but you get the idea. Above 60 mph everything is smooth. I've kept the econ off, but this doesn't seem to make much difference. I have not taken it is for any code reads either. It's not throwing any codes on the instrument panel.

I checked the transmission fluid. The color seems good, but weirdly, it seems low. With a hot engine, the fluid line barely reaches the bottom mark on the dip stick. I realize this may be causing much of my current problems.

My Plan
I am trying to avoid buying an extended warranty since I think the answer from Honda will be that there is nothing wrong with the vehicle and it would cost me around $2K for the policy (3yrs, 36K miles)
I'm going to change to synthetic Valvoline ATF Maxlife. Yes I know the debate on this, but I'm not in warranty anyway and I believe in the benefits of synthetics. When I do this, I'm going to two a two-step flush to ensure torque converter drain (replace the fluid 2 times sequentially in order to replace 80-90% of all fluid - this means a small amount of non-synthetic will remain I think)
I'll install the SVCM Controller (already ordered) because shutting off 3 cylinders is crazy. Even if the fluid change and fill solves 90% of the problem, this fix is better for the engine long term.
Sorry for the book - any feedback or suggestions on this plan appreciated.

Jerry B T
 

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Hello!

I'm looking for a sanity check on my plan. Problem and plan described below - feedback appreciated.

Background
So... I just bought a previously owned 2017 EXL with 69K miles and immediately took it on a 6500m road trip - 16 days. About 1000 miles in, I noticed a weird shift issue. At 47 to 49 mph there's a distinct wobble in the shifting. Like a fight between I think (2nd and 3rd). The tach wobbles up and down 100 to 200 rpms as well. There are some other indications at different shift points and temperatures too, but you get the idea. Above 60 mph everything is smooth. I've kept the econ off, but this doesn't seem to make much difference. I have not taken it is for any code reads either. It's not throwing any codes on the instrument panel.

I checked the transmission fluid. The color seems good, but weirdly, it seems low. With a hot engine, the fluid line barely reaches the bottom mark on the dip stick. I realize this may be causing much of my current problems.

My Plan






Sorry for the book - any feedback or suggestions on this plan appreciated.

Jerry B T
Those are the exact steps other users have outlined and used with success. Your symptoms match theirs exactly. I think there was also a transmission software update to help but that's up to you if your dealer wants to charge an hour of labor to do the software update.

Well done! 馃憦馃憡
 
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Well thankfully your ATF isn't black. Hopefully it never had the torque converter clutch lock issue that causes the the rpms to fluctuate, most noticeable in cruise.
Disabling the VCM solved this for me without paying for a software update.
I'm all for getting all the old DW-1 out of the transmission. You should expect firmer shifts, but it's better than transmission replacement. After switching to Full Synthetic Valvoline MaxLife ATF, I decided to experiment with some other fluids. I'm currently using Amalie Universal Synthetic. It's doing ok, but I really can't say that it is performing any better than ML did.
 
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I just recently visited the Honda dealership for my 60,000 mile service. There is a bulletin out for this. They will do the software update for free and change the transmission fluid free of charge. look under service bulletin 17-014.
 

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I just recently visited the Honda dealership for my 60,000 mile service. There is a bulletin out for this. They will do the software update for free and change the transmission fluid free of charge. look under service bulletin 17-014.
Yes, that is if you want DW-1 fluid.
 

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It's FREE DW-1. anything free is good stuff 馃槀馃槀馃槀馃槀
I got a full bottle and some partials left over from a couple of years ago. It will be poured into the recycling barrel. It will surely lower the grade of the used oil. Lol smirk
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Update.
I missed the free DW-1, but I'll go for the software update next week. I planned to contact a dealership on this anyway. Today I did a 2x flush of the ATF with Valvoline Max. There was some metal sledge on the plug but no shavings. The condition of the old fluid and the sledge on the plug says to me that the fluid had never been changed (76K miles)

There is a huge improvement in the shifting. No shudder at all at 47 to 49 mph. This shift point is has actually moved up a little, but still no shudder. The shifting is firm - I would say not buttery, but I understand this is a little typical of the Valvoline synthetic. Still I would rather have firm shifts than the shudder and indecision all along each shift point.

Next step is the SVCM module install at the end of next week along with a visit to Honda for software update.

Picture of the old fluid here: It could have been worse I guess - still some red to it, but it's pretty scorched.
148774
 

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Update.
I missed the free DW-1, but I'll go for the software update next week. I planned to contact a dealership on this anyway. Today I did a 2x flush of the ATF with Valvoline Max. There was some metal sledge on the plug but no shavings. The condition of the old fluid and the sledge on the plug says to me that the fluid had never been changed (76K miles)

There is a huge improvement in the shifting. No shudder at all at 47 to 49 mph. This shift point is has actually moved up a little, but still no shudder. The shifting is firm - I would say not buttery, but I understand this is a little typical of the Valvoline synthetic. Still I would rather have firm shifts than the shudder and indecision all along each shift point.

Next step is the SVCM module install at the end of next week along with a visit to Honda for software update.

Picture of the old fluid here: It could have been worse I guess - still some red to it, but it's pretty scorched.
View attachment 148774
Yep, that's purty black.
Mine was too.
Purty much the same.

148776

I've done 7 drain and fills between 19k miles and 33k. My fluid is spotless. I must give some credit to the Wix/Filtran 58953 inline filter for helping to get the rest of the fine free floating particles out of my fluid. With the thinner synthetic ATF, I was comfortable using this higher micron rated filter which also come with a magnet.
148777
 
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Nice! Looks like you are on your way to happy motoring with a pretty cost effective and easy remedy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Dealership's initial answer is that there are no software updates for the 2017. I asked specifically about transmission issue / shudder and they said they would ask the Service Manager, but nothing was showing up in their system - I provided my VIN for the lookup. I'll likely take it in and ask the question in person - also, the SVCM has arrived and I want to get the software thing answered before I install the SVCM module.

@ecjohnny
 

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Dealership's initial answer is that there are no software updates for the 2017. I asked specifically about transmission issue / shudder and they said they would ask the Service Manager, but nothing was showing up in their system - I provided my VIN for the lookup. I'll likely take it in and ask the question in person - also, the SVCM has arrived and I want to get the software thing answered before I install the SVCM module.

@ecjohnny
They need to look up this TSB.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
So... The service bulletin 17-014-1 Transmission Judder extends the warranty for this symptom to 80,000 miles or 8 years. The service is a software update and transmission flush. I'm thinking when I take it in next week, it's going to have only new Honda DW-1 Fluid in it for when they drain it and replace it with also new Honda DW-1 Fluid. Thoughts on this?

PS - The vehicle is currently not juddering, but it is super hard shifting between 1st and 2nd on hot days in stop and go traffic.
 

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Not crazy about DW-1, but it's free.
 

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They may want to charge you if they can not duplicate the torque converter clutch lock issue. Might have to remove the S-VCM.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
They may want to charge you if they can not duplicate the torque converter clutch lock issue. Might have to remove the S-VCM.
Yes, did that. I would rather not go with the DW-1, but am looking at any warranty issues beyond in case the software update and new DW-1 does not fully resolve the problem.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Update. Took the vehicle to dealership for the transmission judder issue. The vehicle has 77K miles and falls inside the 80K warranty extension for this issue. Except, the vehicle now has new Valvoline Max Life so the judder issue is completely gone. So... since they could not duplicate the problem in any way, not only did they not replace the fluid, but they did not do a software update either. I asked specifically about this and they said since they could not detect an issue, Honda would not authorize any service for the service bulletin. Also, the vehicle has no codes logged for anything.

The judder is gone and I have not re-installed the SVCM but I have another problem with the transmission that is more intermittent than the judder. About every 10th time I drive the vehicle, it has a nasty hard shift from 1 to 2. The engine revs to 1.5K then slams into gear. It happens repeatedly for several minutes in stop and go traffic - maximum stress. Of course it did none of this during the dealership test drive. Anyone have any ideas on this intermittent hard shift?
 
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