Honda Pilot - Honda Pilot Forums banner

61 - 75 of 75 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
157 Posts
You might like to know Subaru recommends a fuel additive every oil change possible every other.
Wrong.

The only fuel additive Subaru recommends is an anti-freeze additive in cold weather.

"To help prevent moisture from forming in the fuel system and the risk of its freezing, use of an antifreeze additive in the fuel tank is recommended during cold weather. Use only additives that are specifically designed for this purpose."

"Use of a fuel which is low in quality or use of an inappropriate fuel additive may cause damage to the engine and/or fuel system."

"If you continuously use a high quality fuel with the proper detergent and other additives, you should never need to add any fuel system cleaning agents to your fuel tank."


This information is from the 2020 Outback owner's manual - other models and years are similar.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Just got the news ... need to replace fuel injectors. About 5 lights came on the dashboard at once. They also said I needed new ignition button. So I'll be in for about $1500 by tomorrow AM. I've never had fuel injectors replaced. I just do long distance highway driving.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
157 Posts
Just got the news ... need to replace fuel injectors. About 5 lights came on the dashboard at once. They also said I needed new ignition button. So I'll be in for about $1500 by tomorrow AM. I've never had fuel injectors replaced. I just do long distance highway driving.
It would be helpful to include at least the year and mileage of your Pilot with your post.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
@TPOM52 -
How many miles are on your Pilot and what model year is it?
Its a 2016 with about 95,000 miles. The mileage is 90% highway. I have zero problem with the vehicle... its' just that the service people said the lights indicate the injector problem and I need they replaced. It feels weird that the car performs perfectly yet I'm asked to spend $1500 for repairs...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Its a 2016 with about 95,000 miles. The mileage is 90% highway. I have zero problem with the vehicle... its' just that the service people said the lights indicate the injector problem and I need they replaced. It feels weird that the car performs perfectly yet I'm asked to spend $1500 for repairs...
Thanks for that info. This is a known defect. Honda should have done a recall on this, but has preferred to deal with it on a one-problem-at-a-time basis. Saves them money I'm sure. That said, there is a nice profit for Honda service in replacing all the injectors at the typical cost of $1500-$1800. I'm not sure what needs to happen to push them to a recall, but whatever it is - it needs to happen. Probably a class action.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
157 Posts
That said, there is a nice profit for Honda service in replacing all the injectors at the typical cost of $1500-$1800. I'm not sure what needs to happen to push them to a recall, but whatever it is - it needs to happen. Probably a class action.
The injector set can be purchased from Honda dealers online for ~$235 which means the dealer cost is less than that - let's say $200. Honda's cost from the supplier will be less than that - let's say $150 (probably more). Honda doesn't receive any of the labor dollars, so that means Honda makes about $50 profit each time the injectors are replaced while the dealer makes about $900 to $1,500 (allowing 4 hours for a mechanic that makes $25/hr.).

Honda makes very little money each time the injectors are replaced out of warranty. In warranty, they lose their cost of the injectors (<$200) and between $300-600 for labor (depending on state laws for warranty labor allowances).

A recall is unlikely to happen unless there is a real possibility that injector failure could loss of life or property - it's going to take more than a "check engine light" to prompt a recall.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
The injector set can be purchased from Honda dealers online for ~$235 which means the dealer cost is less than that - let's say $200. Honda's cost from the supplier will be less than that - let's say $150 (probably more). Honda doesn't receive any of the labor dollars, so that means Honda makes about $50 profit each time the injectors are replaced while the dealer makes about $900 to $1,500 (allowing 4 hours for a mechanic that makes $25/hr.).

Honda makes very little money each time the injectors are replaced out of warranty. In warranty, they lose their cost of the injectors (<$200) and between $300-600 for labor (depending on state laws for warranty labor allowances).
Is there an opportunity to go after HONDA to recover any money here ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
157 Posts
Is there an opportunity to go after HONDA to recover any money here ?
Owners who have contacted Honda after the diagnosis, but before work begins and the bill is paid have reported some success getting Honda to cover 80-100% of the repair cost. Owners who have already paid out of pocket have reported being told to go pound clay. The reason is that if Honda agrees to cover the repair under goodwill, it will cost them much less than reimbursing a customer for the amount dealers charge for an out-of-warranty repair.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
41 Posts
The more I'm on this site the more I think I'll just replace my '05 Pilot EX with another. There's one on CL here with 106K.White,LX dealer maintained and garaged. The car is immaculate. He's asking $7800 but is motivated.
Our '05 has 199K on it. The engine purrs and tranny shifts normally. I've changed the trans and tranaxle fluid every 30K. Engine every 6K with dino oil .All normal wear items have been done and two timing belt services. Original water pump.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
157 Posts
Our '05 has 199K on it. The engine purrs and tranny shifts normally. I've changed the trans and tranaxle fluid every 30K. Engine every 6K with dino oil .All normal wear items have been done and two timing belt services. Original water pump.
It is strongly recommended to change the water pump when changing the timing belt. The water pump is cheap, but will get real expensive when it fails in between timing belts. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
62 Posts
Last week, I got the dreaded "Emissions System Problem" light, among a host other lights. I took the car into a Honda dealership the next day and both employees I initially spoke with said "unfortunately, it's probably the fuel injectors and it's going to cost about $1800 to repair". After running the diagnostic testing, sure enough, the report came back with misfires in three cylinders and the conclusion was that I needed all six fuel injectors replaced, for $1900! I have approximately 70K miles on my car, so it seemed a bit odd to me that I should need all new fuel injectors. I immediately called American Honda and requested "Goodwill Assistance". I have owned six Honda vehicles, including my 2016 Pilot and I have never had issues like this at 70K miles. (A few months back, I also had the transmission problem with the "judder", and I learned that my transmission fluid was degrading prematurely and I needed new fluid and the computer software updated. Needless to say, I was not surprised at yet another problem with this car.)

Last weekend I had time to do a lot of research on the fuel injector issue, and I cannot believe how many complaints I am finding online. Most frustrating, was when I found various forum posts online that tie this issue to Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) 18-025. This TSB, which was released in March 2018, states that the "probable cause" for this issue is due to an issue at the factory during the manufacturing process. My first question is how on earth could Honda not notify customers of this potential problem while so many customers were still under the 3 year/36,000 warranty? Well, when I asked the "Case Manager" that I dealt with at American Honda this exact question, her (very un-empathetic) response was "we are not going to notify the entire country" ... "your fuel injectors would not have been replaced two years ago if there was nothing wrong with them". Really? Maybe there was something wrong with them when I could have easily had it covered under warranty or maybe Honda could have notified customers, if nothing else, for their own safety! I find this issue unbelievable. However, I am not surprised especially after learning that American Honda was fined 70 million dollars in 2015, by the government, for under reporting safety information. Unfortunately, Honda has a ton of negative publicity and seems to have really lost their competitive advantage recently due to their lack of quality and transparency.

After waiting one week for the outcome of my goodwill assistance request, Honda did come through and cover all but $200 of my new fuel injector repair cost. Now, in actuality, its also important to note that the cost of this repair, without extreme markup, is about $1200. So, Honda "paid" for approximately $1000 of my repair. Considering Honda knew about this problem years ago and failed to notify their customers in a timely fashion, I still think Honda should have paid 100% of the repair cost. I strongly urge anyone else this happens to, to demand that American Honda pay a significant portion of the repair bill. Had American Honda not paid for the bulk of my repair, I would have paid for it myself and then sued them in Small Claims Court. I checked court records and in my state, there are a lot of pending and settled cases against American Honda. I may very well go that route next if I have to sink any more money into the transmission system issue. Of course, when I got home and I reviewed the results of my multi point inspection, I am being told that my transmission fluid needs attention again; I just had it changed 10K miles ago?! How can this car possibly need new transmission fluid again after driving only 10K miles. Something is not right.

Needless to say, the 2016 Honda Pilot is a complete disappointment. I am ready to seek the help of a class action lawsuit attorney if these problems persist. I bought a $40K car so that I wouldn't have to buy another car for a good 10 years. Unfortunately, I am going to probably have to dump this car and trade it in before the problems persist. Who knows what will happen as the mileage increases on the car?! I don't even want to think about it. Good luck to everyone else in the same boat. I guess Toyota just gained a new customer as a result of all of this nonsense.

I have also reported problems with this car to:
  • National Highway Traffic Safety Administration
  • Hondaproblems.com
  • Better Business Bureau
I think the only way American Honda may ever be held accountable for such quality issues and a complete lack of transparency is if everyone with issues speaks up!
Did the dealer help you call American Honda did they tell you to reach out or did they because the dealership knows there is a problem
john
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
We had our fuel injectors replaced this week, courtesy of Honda dealer in CA under emissions warranty. We have 75,000 miles on 2016 Pilot. Emissions warranty apparently goes to 80,000 miles. This is covered under SB 18-025. There are many forums on this issue on this site.

What’s weird with ours is we also had the code DTC U128D (under dash fuse box). I could find NOTHING on this issue on Piloteers.org. This cost $1,000.

Anyone have any info on that?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
157 Posts
We had our fuel injectors replaced this week, courtesy of Honda dealer in CA under emissions warranty. We have 75,000 miles on 2016 Pilot. Emissions warranty apparently goes to 80,000 miles. This is covered under SB 18-025. There are many forums on this issue on this site.
The California emissions warranty lasts for 7 years or 70,000 miles.

TSB 18-025 does not provide for any warranty extension. It states that the "normal warranty applies" for this issue. The "normal warranty" is 7/70 in the 13 states that follow the California emissions warranty, 3/36 in all other states, or up to 8/120 if you have a Honda Care service plan.

Of course, Honda can and has reportedly paid some or all of this repair for vehicles that were no longer covered under warranty, but they're not obligated to do so because there's nothing in writing that says otherwise.

What’s weird with ours is we also had the code DTC U128D (under dash fuse box). I could find NOTHING on this issue on Piloteers.org. This cost $1,000.

Anyone have any info on that?
They got ya! ;) DTC U128D sets in various modules when they lose communication with the GCM (Gauge Control Module - aka "instrument cluster"). Some Honda models have been known to set false "loss of communication" codes between various modules. Sometimes, simply scanning for codes can cause the false codes to appear. My 2019 Ridgeline would set a half-dozen U codes for "loss of communication" between various modules each time I scanned for codes even though all of the referenced modules worked fine. I could clear the codes, but they'd come back.

The "under dash fuse box" (aka MICU or Multiplex Integrated Control Unit) retails for over $500, but costs the dealer less than $350 and is easy to replace.
 
61 - 75 of 75 Posts
Top