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Hello, just picked up a used 2015 2WD touring (67,000 miles). It has a shudder that starts at 70 mph, its a pretty good shudder/vibration (not minor). I bought it used and had it shipped up from down south, didn't know this model had these types of issue prior to purchasing. havn't had a balance and allignement yet (dealer said they did, but it's not in service records), the selling dealer had new sway bars installed on both sides. Might be the VCM issue too. I see some people report a lower control arm bushing failure as well, but not leaks detacted.

I plan on changing oil, trans, and adding the SVCM controller. Also, going to take to honda to see if they can diagnose the issue. Just sucks, used, bought from a out of state dealer, and has out of warrenty issues that might be expensive to fix.

If anyone has any other idea's of what the issue is, please share.

Thanks
 

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High speed shudder usually means a tire is out of balance or is bad, warped rotor or worn out struts.
 

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1. Get your tires balanced, look for an out of round tire. At high speed that's the most likely cause.
2. Doubtful dealer replaced the sway bar, likely the stabilizer bar links, but unrelated.
3. The Compliance Bushings are covered under a special extended warranty from Honda, but this doesnt apply to the 2015's to my knowledge: Warranty Extension: 2009-2014 Honda Pilot Front Suspension Rear Lower Arm Bushing - Honda & Acura
4. I'd recommend doing 3-4 transmission fluid changes, to get fresh fluid in there. You don't know what was put in there previously, nor if it was ever changed.
5. If tires/balance doesn't fix, then the driveshafts are a common culprit as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I know how to do the flush, and already bought enough for a drain and fill. Will proceed with doing the step multiple times.

Had an out of round/bent radial on a previous pilot. This current issue seems different. But, will get a balance, and alignment (will look for this road force balance if I can find...).

There is a TSB on a shudder between 35-65 related to the VCM, and requires a PCM update, and possible driveshaft replacement. But, the driveshaft replacement only applies to 4WD models...

Any warrenty extensions on that drivetrain TSB, or since it's slightly over the warranty is it all out of pocket at this point (if that is the required repair). Does Honda of America sometimes cover these repairs?

1. planning on doing
2. you are correct, just the links
3. I'll see if they can get Honda of America to cover by special exception, if they say thats the issue, or believe its related
4. will do the trans flush several times
5. hope it's not that drive shaft issue...

will report back, if any other idea's or people with this issue please feel free to chime in.

Thanks
 

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As recommended, start off with the easy and obvious wheel balance and test for tire roundness. A hard impact sometime in the car's past can easily damage a belt in a tire, and for the remaining life of that tire you'll have the shaking. For fun, you can rotate the tires and see if the vibration moves.

CV and inner drive joint wear will cause a speed-related shaking that will often damage motor mounts. CV joints are pretty robust so long as they are kept clean and lubricated. Same as "never driven with torn boots". The inner joints wear in a different way, forming dimples dents divots in the grooves in the joint itself. There's a three-legged spider on the inner end of the halfshaft, with roller balls on each leg. Those fit in grooves in the joint, and end up wearing the sintered metal that forms the inside of the joint. When that wear happens, the halfshaft moves out of alignment and is unbalanced. That out-of-balance symptom typically disappears when load is removed, so you can loosely eliminate the inner joint if the vibration goes away on trailing throttle. A full diagnosis has you pull the halfshaft from the joint and fell in there for the little divots in the drive faces of the grooves. The divots need only be a few thousandths deep, so you should clean the old grease out prior to inspection. Solution is replacement, and that obviously needs to include the inner drive joint that may not be part of an aftermarket replacement halfshaft. Unfortunately, it's not clear if you can buy that inner joint and the spider as a separate part, even from Honda.
 

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Start with balancing. Most likely culprit. Also, check wheels for caked up mud or snow or whatever, depending on where you live.
 

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As recommended, start off with the easy and obvious wheel balance and test for tire roundness. A hard impact sometime in the car's past can easily damage a belt in a tire, and for the remaining life of that tire you'll have the shaking. For fun, you can rotate the tires and see if the vibration moves.

CV and inner drive joint wear will cause a speed-related shaking that will often damage motor mounts. CV joints are pretty robust so long as they are kept clean and lubricated. Same as "never driven with torn boots". The inner joints wear in a different way, forming dimples dents divots in the grooves in the joint itself. There's a three-legged spider on the inner end of the halfshaft, with roller balls on each leg. Those fit in grooves in the joint, and end up wearing the sintered metal that forms the inside of the joint. When that wear happens, the halfshaft moves out of alignment and is unbalanced. That out-of-balance symptom typically disappears when load is removed, so you can loosely eliminate the inner joint if the vibration goes away on trailing throttle. A full diagnosis has you pull the halfshaft from the joint and fell in there for the little divots in the drive faces of the grooves. The divots need only be a few thousandths deep, so you should clean the old grease out prior to inspection. Solution is replacement, and that obviously needs to include the inner drive joint that may not be part of an aftermarket replacement halfshaft. Unfortunately, it's not clear if you can buy that inner joint and the spider as a separate part, even from Honda.
I've had the same issue on my 2012 for a while now with no solution. I did have one mechanic mention the same thing Dr Bob says about the inner joints. He was a former Honda service guy, so he was familiar with a lot of the common Honda issues.

Mine is really bad going up hill under load and completely disappears going downhill with the gas off the pedal, so I'm sure it's related to this.

However, I have no interest in pouring more money into this thing on a guess or hunch and am just dealing with it, as we rarely drive it at those speeds now. Every time I've tried to fix it, it was another $1k+ experiment with labor, parts, etc. and it didn't get better. This and the shudder from 25-35 on acceleration is very aggravating.
 

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The Bad News, if it is in fact an inner drive joint, is that the bearings that support that joint won't last well with the out-of-balance load on it. I don't have the blow-up of the supports, but in most cars those fit into the differential on one side and are out on an extended shaft on the other. The diagnosis isn't too tough -- you'll want a couple sleeves of CV grease and clamps for the inner boots. Scoop the old grease out of one of the channels where the spider slides in, plop the end of a finger in there and feel for a depression on the drive-side face. It will be easily apparent.
 

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For 2012-2015 cars:

Looks like we can buy the left side inner joint separately, current list price a bit over $300 for 44310-STX-A12 . Another $100 list gets you the whole left driveshaft including the inner drive joint all the way through the axle nut. 44306-SZA-A12

On the right side, the inner joint is not available as a separate part. But again, the whole assembly new is a bit over $400 list. 44305-SZA-A21 The carrier for the right-side inner drive joint is under $50. 44512-SZA-A00

The bargain is the whole driveshaft assemblies, as they have new inner and outer joints already packed with new grease and fitted with new boots. They show up at discount Honda dealer's parts sites for $240 each as I type.
 

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Better deals:


I have found it pays to shop around different online discount Honda OEM sites. And compare estimated shipping and tax.... because they all differ, likely in distance to your location.
 

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^^ Yeah ^^

Some folks have their favorite go-to parts sites and suppliers. I don't play favorites, mostly since I haven't had to spend on anything serious yet. Yet... I also don't know what forum rules might apply to recommending non-sponsors here. I casually look at the College Hills online parts site for guidance. I haven't tried taking their numbers to my local dealer to try to get close to a price match. Anybody had any luck with that?

When we were in the competitive SoCal market, a local dealer service manager was also a member of an organization we supported with a relationship with Honda, so parts and accessories came at her cost plus a small handling fee. I never needed anything so... But it does show that there may be some potential 'flexibility' in dealer parts pricing.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
It was definitely the tires. They had 30k on them. They must have been driving them over or under inflated, not balancing them... the road force balancer guy said one of them didn’t seem seated correctly, his guy went to re-sit it and fix a flat poured out... anyway, four new tires and no issues...
 

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ill bump this thread instead of starting a new one. i have a fwd '12 w/ 100k miles. been chasing a steering wheel shaking/shudder at ~70mph and high speed braking. in the past 6 months or so i have replaced the front rotors/pads with powerstop from rockauto, a wheel bearing and a cv axle. i have 4 new (presumably balanced) tires and an alignment. problem persists. a visual inspection of the compliance bushings shows no leaks but they are original.

what parts do i need to replace next to avoid eating through another set of tires prematurely?
 
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