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2012 Pilot low mileage, shift issues

7K views 24 replies 8 participants last post by  hburwitz41 
#1 · (Edited)
Hi there, recently purchased a 2012 Honda Pilot LX 4WD in March of 2021 with 57,000 miles on it. As of now it has just shy of 63,000 miles on it. I’ve noticed when changing from 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd it will jerk or hesitate switching into gear. There are no codes and the blinking D has not come up yet. Before this vehicle I had a 05 Pilot EX AWD and had to change the 3rd gear transmission switch due to the blinking D.Do the 2nd generations pilots have more problems with the transmissions? What steps should I take next to solve my second Gen issue? Thinking it might be a switch or 2 again.
 
#2 ·
3 drain and fills. Best shift quality will come from Honda DW1 fluid, but it doesn’t last super long. Valvoline Max Life ATF is cheaper and probably will last a lot better with a lot of people here using it, myself included. Unfortunately it doesn’t seem as smooth has Honda’s dw1 though. These transmissions do have issues with the 3rd gear pressure switch but you should only replace it if it pops a code for it. The problem is electrical in the pressure switch and it either works or it doesn’t. It will not cause shift quality issues from my understanding. You can also disable vcm which besides extending the life of the engine can smooth out some of the causes for this. S-vcm is highly (highly) recommended. Finally… they just don’t shift that great to begin with. As I told my service advisor early on “It feels like the transmission is made of glass”. After he stopped laughing he said he knew exactly what I meant, but it was normal and they don’t see many issues with them. He is right. They are reliable transmissions, but not especially smooth.
 
#3 ·
As mentioned, drain and fills with Full Synthetic Valvoline MaxLife ATF is what I'd recommend. I switched my 5-speed 2012 Crosstour from DW-1 at around 100k miles. It now has 273k miles and never once changed a single transmission part. I do a 3.8qt drain and fill every 30k miles. It still shifts smooth like the day I bought it new.
I also use S-VCM to keep my V6 running on all 6 cylinders 100% of the time. This prevents transmission judder and a host of other engine problems.
 
#4 ·
I have done 3 drain and fills with VML on our '15 Pilot (same transmission). Yes, the shifts are more noticeable but I like that. I like knowing I have a full synthetic fluid that is proven to play nicely with our transmissions.

As stated above, disable the VCM since Honda uses the transmission to help mask vibrations and harshness from that system activating and deactivating.
 
#5 ·
If you don't like the firmness of VML, add Lubeguard Red, HFM, or tube of Shuuder Fix, at HALF the recommended rate. It makes the Friction Modifiers, and shift behavior very close to DW-1.
 
#6 ·
It didn't take me more than a short bit of driving to appreciate the improvement in shifting with VML.

Automatic transmission shifts are a compromise between manual gear changes and a fluid coupling system. Every shift includes a certain amount of "slippage" somewhere, and controlling the amount of slippage is where comfort and transmission survival curves cross. I want enough slippage that I don't "feel it" as a harsh shift, and also not so harsh that there's risk of breaking something. But "slippage" is the same as "wear" when it comes to clutches and bands that engage and disengage as the transmission moves through different ratios.

Knowing Honda's less-than-stellar history with transmission life in Pilots and Odysseys, I'm more than willing to trade the slightly firmer shifting for the reduction in wear to the friction pieces inside. The PCM helps this a lot, momentarily adjusting engine power during upshifts to reduce harshness and slippage especially during what would otherwise be high-load shifts.

I'm not at all a fan of using additives such as friction modifiers in auto gearboxes. The VML as it comes from the bottle is just fine. If you are really sensitive to the change in shift quality, do the same 3x D&F service with Honda fluid. My nickel says you won't be able to tell the difference between new VML and new Honda fluid. That nickel is "my two cents", adjusted for inflation.
 
#7 ·
Agreed - it's a minor difference between VML and Honda DW-1. With that said, I could tell when I switched from DW-1 to VML. In general I just don't love the way this transmission shifts. I don't hate it... but it's just not as refined as it could have been, and yes that's normal.
 
#8 ·
It's the design they used, more of an automated manual style which is difficult to make buttery smooth.
 
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#9 ·
Says the man using ANOTHER aftermarket fluid in his trans......ALL trans fluids use Friction Modifiers in degrees it seems, except for (apparently) the original Ford F. Honda's have used quite high levels of modifiers since the 80's beginning with their band-less designs. As for Honda trans failures, according to a trans rebuilder friend, almost all Honda trans he's seen fail by internal seals or valve body problems, well before the friction material wears out.

Further, VML is a compromise fluid for EVERY vehicle they list on the bottle; purpose blended for ZERO vehicles. Which OEM uses (unbadged) VML as factory fill? Guessing none, even for stand alone Aisin, ZF offerings. Last Lubeguard is well respected in the trans business, and a number of OEM's in the last 30 years have used their friction modifier products to remedy rough converter lockup and shift shudder.

I used it in the past decade on a Ford Ranger and Toyota Highlander, both of which developed shift shudder before 100k, at low speeds and high ambient temps. The Ranger now has 230k on the original trans and the Highlander had 240k before I sold it. I used in in an '86 Accord which developed an internal issue (likely an accumulator seal) that caused harsh 1-2 shifts. Certainly less costly than a rebuild, and the fix lasted another 70k miles until it finally leaked badly enough internally where it wouldn't apply clutches. So in recommending some Lubeguard to nudge VML more like synthetic DW-1, I'm at LEAST on equal footing with those that recommend VML for DW-1, as-is, and with similar anecdotal foundations.

And for the record, my Pilot shifts very smoothly and otherwise well behaved on DW-1, at nearly 160k on the clock. No complaints whatsoever. I buy it for $6 ~$7/qt at a local dealer, and drain and fill every 30~50k to pull out some measure of circulating particulates, since seal and valve body issues are so prevalent. That, versus any concern of friction or hard part wear, is the impetus.
 
#10 ·
Further, VML is a compromise fluid for EVERY vehicle they list on the bottle; purpose blended for ZERO vehicles. Which OEM uses (unbadged) VML as factory fill? Guessing none,
I currently use VML in Nissan NV, Hyundai Accent and Honda. I don't have the slightest idea what makes it work but it does. I have no doubts that VML is responsible for getting my Crosstour to 273k miles. They were not easy miles. Lots of 75mph highways, stop and go traffic in Houston. I have zero faith that DW-1 could have possibly made it this far.
And for the record, my Pilot shifts very smoothly and otherwise well behaved on DW-1, at nearly 160k on the clock. No complaints whatsoever.
Glad you not having any issues with your Pilots transmission. That's not always the case for many. We've had many people come on the forum havi,g transmission issues that were solved by making the switch to VML. Maybe you can tell us a little about what your driving conditions and habits are. Maybe that's the difference.
 
#11 ·
Before getting into generalized discussions about whether the transmission in your car is reliable, follow the good advice here and service the transmission to ensure that it filled with clean factory spec fluid.

Further, as a general rule of thumb if you purchase a used car and do not know the maintenance history, you should “baseline” it by performing all of the routine required services that should be done. On a Pilot, these include not only the transmission fluid, but brakes, VTM4 fluid, cabin filter, engine oil and filter etc. Brake rotors should be checked for run out and pad thickness checked. Your timing belt may also be due to be changed by time if not by mileage. All of those things should be done to ensure reliability and long service life. Find a Honda dealer with good reviews or a private shop that specializes in Honda. Avoid chains. Don’t neglect the cosmetics either. Pay a good detailer or do it yourself.

Good luck. We are the original owners of a 2012 Pilot and with timely recommended maintenance it now has well over 100k and runs and looks much like a new car. These are solid vehicles for their intended purpose of hauling a family with stuff.
 
#12 ·
In my experience, many seal and valve-body issues are often the result of particles of friction material that flow around and settle in the valve body passages and ports. The transmissions in our Pilots don't have changeable filters, so regular fluid changes add the benefit of clearing particles that would otherwise gather in the bottom of the case. Particles that are no longer in the case have a tougher time interfering with the hydraulics. Heat and contamination are the primary causes of failure in any hydraulic system.

This applies to The "other" hydraulic systems in the car too -- like brakes and power steering. All benefit from timely fluid changes to help them last.

For the latest round of brake system services, I found that my former favorite fluid, Valvoline synthetic brake fluid DOT 5.1, is no longer available. The Pilot got the last bottle I had on the shelf, while the rest of the flock got Bosch synthetic 5.1 instead. I hope Valvoline can somehow stay in business with their mainstay premium brake fluid no longer in their lineup. I'd better get over to both nearby WalMart stores this morning and grab all their VML gallons before the hoarders get there... :cautious:
 
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#13 ·
Hi guys, I did a drain and fill per recommendation 2x with VLM and transmission did not seem to like it much. It was good for a week but started jerking way too much for my liking. I already have the VCM muzzled installed when I got the car. Thinking I’m going to switch back to DW-1 back to factory specs for better shifting just hoping that the transmission lasts. Never had issues with any accords/civics just the bigger Honda vehicles
 
#14 ·
How old was the fluid previously? Valvoline MaxLife ATF does a great job cleaning the transmission and is used by many Piloteer owners here on the forum. With 2 drain and fills, your currently at about 50% old and new fluid. You might consider a 3rd to get to 80%. Hopefully there is not more wrong with the transmission.
 
#16 ·
Sorry to hear this with such low miles. Have you checked the ground strap from the transmission to the chassis? I know that this can cause poor electrical current to shift solenoids if in bad condition or corroded where bolted. I'd also check the battery and alternator for any possible electrical issues.
 
#17 ·
Further to my points, guys...VML is optimized for nothing. That said, while most Honda 5-speed slushbox samples might adapt to VML or your favorite Castrol, Purple...., some samples don't. At best VML is innocuous and/or the trans adapts shift quality to be reasonable, even preferable, for a number of owners. For them, a less expensive alternative to DW-1 .

My anecdotal experience with supposed OEM DW-1 supplier, and VML; My '12 Pilot shifted rougher after doing a drain and fill with Idemitsu DW-1 a few years ago. A small dose of Lubegurad fixed that. It's been drinking straight Honda DW-1 since that experiment.

My '08 Highlander hated VML; very rough shifts and occasional 2-3 flare after single drain and fill. I attributed the issue to a combination of viscosity (flare) and friction modifier (shift quality) intolerance. Had to do a 3x drain and fill with WS a week after putting in VML.

While Grease is convinced VML extended the life of his Crosstour trans, we have no control sample trans running DW-1 under similar conditions and fluid intervals, to prove for or against. My hunch is that his frequency of fluid changes combined with a good statistical mix of factory parts for his trans, plus his driving habits has yielded long service life.
 
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#19 ·
While Grease is convinced VML extended the life of his Crosstour trans, we have no control sample trans running DW-1 under similar conditions and fluid intervals, to prove for or against. My hunch is that his frequency of fluid changes combined with a good statistical mix of factory parts for his trans, plus his driving habits has yielded long service life.
Try to convince him of that.
 
#18 ·
I just wish DW-1 was full synthetic, than this discussion would be a lot easier. Most only change for that reason, myself included. Availability is nice and all, same with lower price - but I can plan ahead a few weeks and quite frankly don't stress about minor cost differences when maintaining my vehicle.
 
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#20 ·
Just a reminder: The fluid level check procedure for the Honda is different from most others. Rather than check the level with engine running and warmed up, Honda has us bring everything to temperature, then shut the engine off, and do the dipstick level test between 30 and 90 seconds of that shutoff. If you aren't verifying the level this way, it may be contributing to some erratic shift performance.

Side note... I should check the fluid the "normal" way and see where it sits relative to the "correct" way. For fun/reference.
 
#22 ·
Without driving it I can’t really comment too much, other than these transmissions just arent that great for shift quality to begin with. Before you chase too much stuff down you may want to drive another one to compare or have a mech familiar with give you an opinion on yours. The good news is that these transmissions, unlike most Honda FWD cars, actually seem to be pretty reliable no matter what fluid you’re using.
 
#24 ·
Can you share what the "service" at the dealer consisted of? Gives us more to consider for future recommendations.

Thanks!
 
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