[Tacoma'03Pilot]

... frame maintenance costs as an excuse.

I find it easier than @cintocrunch to be cranky with people that don't take the time to understand the basics of maintaining expensive things like cars and houses, but I agree that this is common.

I also agree it's not entirely their fault with a Honda - I think it's a basic strategy for Honda dealers: get the car to 100k miles after 7 or 8 years, hit the owner with the (dealer priced) maintenance that's coming up, and introduce them to the sales guy that will "work with them" on a good trade price.

Honda offers a lot of functionality for a pretty good value. But they're not designed to run forever. No free lunch.

 

[dr bob]

I'm too frugal to let value dribble away in a moment of weakness. But I also appreciate folks who have cash-flow issues and haven't planned well for the very few $$$ Honda scheduled maintenance tasks. Back to that frugal thing, my philosophy on cars is that they don't start to deliver value unless you can wring 250K+ out of them. So after the depreciation schedule has flattened .and. I've driven enough more 'cheap' flattened-curve miles to offset those initial expensive ones. To make all that work though, I also get to invest in preventive maintenance including all the things that Honda predicts. Cars tend to be depreciating assets on paper, and the only value they can deliver is travel miles. Buy, maintain, drive.

More: Selling instead of maintaining, especially when the 'avoided' maintenance cost is as well-known as the Honda timing belt service is, generally means the selling price gets reduced by some large fraction of that avoided cost. Other obvious stuff like tires and brakes fall into the same class. There's maybe a 50% rule, where a buyer expects these major-cost items to have maybe 50% of each maintenance life remaining else the value of the vehicle starts to fall off. Similarly, a seller would do well to drive out those first 50% of maintenance life because it generally won't increase the sales value. "Brand new tires" will help some, but if they aren't "new" they won't add much if any value. For most owners, they have little concern for a TB/WP service that's due more than a few tears at most. Maybe that 50% needs adjusting.

More-More: My wife likes her 4Runner vs. the Pilot. The higher seating position, the 'truck' feel with cab on chassis, all contribute to that preference. The per-mile operating costs on the Pilot is less, but the depreciation curve is steeper. That depreciation thing means little unless you are dealing cars less than maybe 8 years old and 125k. From that point it's all appearance, wear and tear, and maintenance history. For our use patterns, there's no practical difference. There's no doubt that the 4Runner is much more capable off-road, and can be more easily modified for even more. Reality these days is off-roading on a dirt or gravel driveway. No difference between the cars for that duty.

Back to that cash-flow thing -- Folks who buy beyond their financial ability too often find themselves stuck on a financial car-payment treadmill, where the instantly-easy option is to trade-in vs. maintain. With 72- and even 84-month financing too common, and considering 15k/yr common, you'll need a timing belt right about the time your payments stop. Maybe, rather than signing up for another payment cycle, you budget the equivalent of only a couple of those for that $$ maintenance. Then bank/invest the other ten months you would have paid on the new loan. With interest-earned plus interest-avoided, you'll be able to pay cash for a new car every several decreasing years going forward. Maintain your investment. Keep it clean and shiny. Drive those really cheap miles out of it yourself.

 

[STMech]

I will pile on with a couple more points:

Your 2012 is one of the more reliable Pilots ever built. The 5 speed transmission, if properly maintained, should easily go for 200k+ miles. The engine has a great track record for reliability, as long as the VCM system is disabled, and quality oil and filter service is performed. Your Pilot deserves the investment of proper maintenance, and will pay you back in many miles of service.

If you don’t want to invest in the needed maintenance, then you should sell the vehicle to someone who will.

 

[Nail Grease]

2012 Pilot is an awesome vehicle if ALL the maintenance is done and the VCM is disabled. Think of it as your baby and feed it. And feed it good stuff. Watch videos and do the easy stuff like Disabling the VCM (things you may be comfortable doing), a quality oil change and filter every 5k miles. Full synthetic ATF drain and fills every 20k, power steering fluid flush with Honda (compatible fluid) every 50k, brake fluid should never be dark yellow or brown. If AWD drain and fill the VTM-4 fluid and gear oil every 30k, spark plugs (NGK Laser Iridium) every 100k, Air filter inspect and replace as needed, Drain radiator with timing belt water pump job for a 2 gallon refresh.

A 2012 with 100k needs an immediate timing belt water pump job done. Drain radiator too and replace drive belt. This would be my parts list from RockAuto….

 

[garoto]

If I was to be honest. It sounds to me like you have a new car itch and this is a good excuse to scratch that itch. It’s a perfectly okay feeling to have and it’s fine to want and to get a newer car. But, no, there’s nothing wrong with the car needing this kind of maintenance. The quotes you got for timing belt job seems about right.

 

[Nyteknight]

Mine was also a 12 with 189K miles on it. The only non maintenance repairs I had to make was a bad pully on the alternator belt, a wheel bearing and 2 motor mounts after a really horrible off road trip up a supposed fire road. The rest was normal maintenance, replacing spark plugs, timing belt and water pump, religiously having oil changes done, drain and replace of the fluids. Was on top of the internals and it ran excellent.

Externals...well we won't talk about that. A car with dings and horrible sun damaged paint isn't a high steal target =) Even with my horrible exterior, I still was able to pull in 9K from the insurance company when it was written off. I would still be driving mine if someone hadn't backed into me and totaled it.

I'd keep it around unless you just happen to have 800+ a month to toss around for a new car payment....

 

[Crocs_and_Sox]

Lolol

go look at what junk you can get for the money you are talking about.

sell it to me. I’ll give you that money for it sight unseen.

 

[ike94598]

4runners are reliable as long as you keep up with maintenance as with any other cars. For starters, besides oil/filter changes (which requires front skid plates to be removed), you have to also grease the propeller shaft u joints (i think there are 3). Gen 5 also runs on ATF WS which is not forever ATF and requires regular changes (w/o dip stick not the worst in the world). If buying used, highly likely many maintenance is not followed by the books and worse yet many get beat up on the logging/dirt roads-- which means higher chance of corrective maintenance (not cheap either). Worse if they are lifted as they compromise reliabliity and stabiilty at the cost of additional 2-3" clearance. Yeah its 4.0 V6 is very reliable and timing chain but I still like the sound of J35 better ...just me though.

I will keep the 4Runner as a potential future SUV to own. I have maintained my Pilot and it will serve me for many more years.

 

[ike94598]

This is a good price. It'll be closer to $1500 at the dealer. Recommend you get the Aisin kit. High quality parts and time tested in the J35 engine. Avoid any "Honda brand timing belt kit" as Honda does not sell such a packaged kit and it will be counterfeit.

Yep, they used Aisin parts for the timing belt, water pump, and replaced all 6 spark plugs. I paid $850 for all out the door.

 

[ike94598]

Here's the thing... a lot of people buy V6 Honda and Acura products with zero knowledge of the timing belt maintenance. Sure, it's their fault but not many people care about such things or know anything about it so I have a hard time really being hard on them about it because my wife would do the same exact thing.

End of the day - the 2.5 gen Pilot ('12-'15) has proven to be a very durable and long lasting platform. Disable the VCM, change the transmission fluid to keep it fresh, otherwise follow the maintenance intervals and you likely won't have many problems. This Pilot can last you a very long time.

If your heart is really set on a different vehicle, don't make excuses about maintenance costs just admit the facts and move on. This is a Honda Pilot, it's an excellent and reliable appliance but it is not a soul stirring vehicle like a Durango R/T or 4Runner you can modify and go off road with.

Since I mainly drive in the city, I won't be doing off-road activities. There are various opinions about VCMs. I'm still reading and learning before making a decision. There's a wide range of kits available, from $15 on Amazon to $650 with the screen. Choosing the right one will take some time and consideration. For now, I'll hold off on making any modifications.

 

[ike94598]

A vehicle is like raising a child, you have to feed and care for it. If the timing belt fails, your're going to be around 7 THOUSAND dollars for repairs. My autoshop teacher always told us "pay me now or pay me later".

I agree, but the underlying decision was whether to maintain it now or sell the car to get another one. I opted to get it maintained, TB & WP has changed as well as spark plugs.

 

[ike94598]

OP- these are great cars. Yours has 100K? You are just breaking it in. Invest the money.
I have a 2015 with 135K and it looks and runs showroom fresh. I'm not kidding. Maybe a stone chip or two.
I also have a 2008 with 180K that's not pretty but starts every time and runs like a champ. Looking at timing belt/ water pump #2 on that one, plus shocks all around, plus a couple of smaller items and fluids. I'm probably gonna sink $3K into it over the next few months. But what's the alternative? Sell my 2015 and buy new for $50K? (or used for $30K) Or sell the 2008 for like $4K, give the kids my 2015, and buy new for $50K? (or used for $30K)
That's potentially a 300K car if you treat it nice, and especially if you keep it cosmetically fresh, you'll be less inclined to be "tired" of it (I think the biggest reason folks crave a new car is to have something shiny, not because it's wearing out)
You should consider disabling the variable cylinder function. I waffled for a long time, and did so after finally getting misfires and plug fouling. I wish I had done it sooner.
Cheers

Mine does have some rock and shopping cart marks from the previous owner, but the interior is great and the paint is in excellent condition. Overall, it's in excellent shape. The money I spent was for a good cause, and I'm confident I'll get its worth over the years. Despite being a 2012 model with 100,000 miles, it drives like new with no problems at all. Why spend more money and change it? I plan to keep it for a long time.

 

[ike94598]

Good point above. We all want something new and shiny. Nothing wrong with that.

The point about...what's the alternative is the harsh reality. Maintenance, and repairs, can be expensive. Almost seems not worth it at times. But what's the alternative?

Not hard to spend $50K on a new Pilot + TTL, etc and we are at $60K. Wow, when you step back a bit.

Yeap, unfortunately I am not rich and if i was I would not be here talking about a Pilot I am sure I will find another way to use my money.

 

[ike94598]

It really sounds like you don't like the vehicle but are scared to admit it, so you're trying to frame maintenance costs as an excuse.

I do like it, but I'm not emotionally attached to it. If upgrading makes sense, why not go for it? I made my decision and decided to keep it or decided to "like it for more years without maintenance cost excuses" with your words...

 

[ike94598]

I'm too frugal to let value dribble away in a moment of weakness. But I also appreciate folks who have cash-flow issues and haven't planned well for the very few $$$ Honda scheduled maintenance tasks. Back to that frugal thing, my philosophy on cars is that they don't start to deliver value unless you can wring 250K+ out of them. So after the depreciation schedule has flattened .and. I've driven enough more 'cheap' flattened-curve miles to offset those initial expensive ones. To make all that work though, I also get to invest in preventive maintenance including all the things that Honda predicts. Cars tend to be depreciating assets on paper, and the only value they can deliver is travel miles. Buy, maintain, drive.

More: Selling instead of maintaining, especially when the 'avoided' maintenance cost is as well-known as the Honda timing belt service is, generally means the selling price gets reduced by some large fraction of that avoided cost. Other obvious stuff like tires and brakes fall into the same class. There's maybe a 50% rule, where a buyer expects these major-cost items to have maybe 50% of each maintenance life remaining else the value of the vehicle starts to fall off. Similarly, a seller would do well to drive out those first 50% of maintenance life because it generally won't increase the sales value. "Brand new tires" will help some, but if they aren't "new" they won't add much if any value. For most owners, they have little concern for a TB/WP service that's due more than a few tears at most. Maybe that 50% needs adjusting.

More-More: My wife likes her 4Runner vs. the Pilot. The higher seating position, the 'truck' feel with cab on chassis, all contribute to that preference. The per-mile operating costs on the Pilot is less, but the depreciation curve is steeper. That depreciation thing means little unless you are dealing cars less than maybe 8 years old and 125k. From that point it's all appearance, wear and tear, and maintenance history. For our use patterns, there's no practical difference. There's no doubt that the 4Runner is much more capable off-road, and can be more easily modified for even more. Reality these days is off-roading on a dirt or gravel driveway. No difference between the cars for that duty.

Back to that cash-flow thing -- Folks who buy beyond their financial ability too often find themselves stuck on a financial car-payment treadmill, where the instantly-easy option is to trade-in vs. maintain. With 72- and even 84-month financing too common, and considering 15k/yr common, you'll need a timing belt right about the time your payments stop. Maybe, rather than signing up for another payment cycle, you budget the equivalent of only a couple of those for that $$ maintenance. Then bank/invest the other ten months you would have paid on the new loan. With interest-earned plus interest-avoided, you'll be able to pay cash for a new car every several decreasing years going forward. Maintain your investment. Keep it clean and shiny. Drive those really cheap miles out of it yourself.

I totally agree, nothing more to add. And I also agree with your wife about the 4Runner! Since the Pilot can serve for many more years and I want to keep it, maybe my wife will want it so I can get myself a 4Runner.

 

[ike94598]

I will pile on with a couple more points:

Your 2012 is one of the more reliable Pilots ever built. The 5 speed transmission, if properly maintained, should easily go for 200k+ miles. The engine has a great track record for reliability, as long as the VCM system is disabled, and quality oil and filter service is performed. Your Pilot deserves the investment of proper maintenance, and will pay you back in many miles of service.

If you don’t want to invest in the needed maintenance, then you should sell the vehicle to someone who will.

Today, I had the timing belt, water pump and all the spark plugs changed. I feel better and I hope my Pilot feels better too. Interior and exterior is in great condition. It drives like new. I will keep it and drive it and enjoy it! Thanks for the input!

 

[ike94598]

2012 Pilot is an awesome vehicle if ALL the maintenance is done and the VCM is disabled. Think of it as your baby and feed it. And feed it good stuff. Watch videos and do the easy stuff like Disabling the VCM (things you may be comfortable doing), a quality oil change and filter every 5k miles. Full synthetic ATF drain and fills every 20k, power steering fluid flush with Honda (compatible fluid) every 50k, brake fluid should never be dark yellow or brown. If AWD drain and fill the VTM-4 fluid and gear oil every 30k, spark plugs (NGK Laser Iridium) every 100k, Air filter inspect and replace as needed, Drain radiator with timing belt water pump job for a 2 gallon refresh.

A 2012 with 100k needs an immediate timing belt water pump job done. Drain radiator too and replace drive belt. This would be my parts list from RockAuto….
View attachment 176708

I bought the Bosch Double Iridium 96337 spark plugs and an AISIN kit for the timing belt and water pump. We didn't do anything else. It drives fine, accelerates as it should, with no shaking or issues. I could do more but I didn't want to spend now, I left some for later.

 

[ike94598]

If I was to be honest. It sounds to me like you have a new car itch and this is a good excuse to scratch that itch. It’s a perfectly okay feeling to have and it’s fine to want and to get a newer car. But, no, there’s nothing wrong with the car needing this kind of maintenance. The quotes you got for timing belt job seems about right.

The itching caused by a bug that I found and killed today no more itching... till the 2025 4Runners come out than I will give my Pilot to my wife and get myself a 4Runner hopefully!

 

[ike94598]

Mine was also a 12 with 189K miles on it. The only non maintenance repairs I had to make was a bad pully on the alternator belt, a wheel bearing and 2 motor mounts after a really horrible off road trip up a supposed fire road. The rest was normal maintenance, replacing spark plugs, timing belt and water pump, religiously having oil changes done, drain and replace of the fluids. Was on top of the internals and it ran excellent.

Externals...well we won't talk about that. A car with dings and horrible sun damaged paint isn't a high steal target =) Even with my horrible exterior, I still was able to pull in 9K from the insurance company when it was written off. I would still be driving mine if someone hadn't backed into me and totaled it.

I'd keep it around unless you just happen to have 800+ a month to toss around for a new car payment....

I bought mine 10 months ago with 85,000 miles on it. I've already driven from CA to FL and back. Putting 15,000 miles on it in 10 months, I've decided today to keep it for more years.

 

[ike94598]

Let me introduce you to my 2012 Honda Pilot Touring with 100K miles. Citizen of California San Francisco Bay Area...

Thanks for all the information you shared and helped me keep my SUV.