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2007 Oil Leak - First Ever In a Honda

3005 Views 101 Replies 8 Participants Last post by  plplplpl
I think it’s the front valve cover gasket, and I was able to crank some valve cover bolts a tiny bit more. I was surprise how tight they were.

Is this a common issue? Might mine be over tightened from previous valve adjustment or timing belt service?

It’s got ~160,000 miles on this 2007 AWD EXL.

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Use a torque wrench to tighten the bolts to spec. Do not overtighten. That is an aluminum head, and the last thing you want to do is strip out the threads and have to fix that.
I typically tighten to “feel” and think my small ratchet that’s about 7-8” overall is what I used. I was surprised that most were quite snug. My HF torque wrench is a POS that doesn’t work correctly. I broke too many bolts trying to tighten things to spec with it.

I would expect that if anything, these are already overtightened. My gut doesn’t tell me that loosening and re-torquing is the solution to this problem.

I’m feeling that cleaning the engine would be the thing to do next, so when I do have noticeable leaks in the future, they can be traced.

I guess the fan and wind could be blowing oil on top of the motor, but my gut tells me that usually thing go down, not up.

Any typical culprits for a dirty front valve cover?


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Is this a new vehicle? Doesn't look like it was serviced in a while. Check your fluid levels. Make sure you're on level ground. Make sure you are between the marks. Not over, and not under. Trans fluid you check at operating temp (fan comes on) and between 60-90 sec. after you turn off the engine. In that 30 sec. window. Do not check cold, you will overfill. Use Honda trans fluid. What was the last service done?
I’ve been doing oil changes and economizing on lots as this is a 16 year old vehicle now. My friend is a mechanic and has done the transfer case fluid, etc.

About 3.5 years ago my wife crashed into a parked car on the left side at which time I had planned to replace the radiator to avoid SMOD and gave the radiator to the body shop to install while they had the car. I’m guessing that’s far too long ago to be related and haven’t noticed any issues with trans fluid.

I replace the PS pump seal and did notice it whining when trying to teach my daughter how to park a car. That PS pump was really working though.

I’m sitting in the car and it’s really raining. I can check the fluids more closely later, but I feel pretty confident it’s oil.

Last service? Uhm… besides an oil change by me, it would be transfer case and differential fluid. Seems far fetched for that to reach the oil pan and top of valve cover. I could be wrong. Honestly, that was my first thought after thinking maybe it was just the oil pan plug, as the oil pan was the first place I noticed dripping, and not long after I’d done an oil change. So I guess it’s possible that it’s getting blown all the way up the motor.

The apparent oil in the front motor mount seemed like it has to be dripping down the front though. Is it possible for the oil to get sucked forward and up from the pan or transfer case?
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It's not getting blown on the cover. You would see it cover everything else. It is just on the cover, so it is leaking from the cover, or at least getting on the cover from somewhere, somehow. Likely from the grommets to the bolts like Nail Grease said. Your valve cover could also be cracked from the accident.
After aligning the wheels and prying the fender away from the driver door with a shovel, the car was completely drivable after the accident. I think the control arm and perhaps the frame got bent a little. The body shop was expected to replace the control arm. The car didn’t pull when I sent it in for the body work. My friend and I kept adjusting by eyeball and using alignment plates we borrowed, and the car would drive straight down the highway with no hands on the wheel. The Honda dealership body shop did the work and did an alignment at the dealership service center, and the car has pulled ever since and been maybe eating the front tires a bit. I haven’t taken it back to my friend’s shop to redo the alignment, but it sucks having to pull on the steering wheel going down the highway. I find myself getting in the lane that’s tilted in the direction that makes it so I don’t have to pull so hard on the wheel. It’s not that bad, but I’m just sensitive to that and hate when the steering wheel shakes or I have to pull on it in one direction. Total BS when it’s clear that I can fix this on my own balancing tires and adjusting tie rods. My wife decided to have the body shop fix the car when I was willing to buy body panels myself at a junk yard bc the car wasn’t worth the $7000 that it cost the insurance company to fix it. I have her handle her own cell phone bc I don’t want to be responsible for the issues she ends up having with it. She made her own decision on the body work.

I don’t think there is any reason to believe the valve cover was cracked… unless it’s due to over tightening the bolts.
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This talk of the PCV didn’t catch on with me at first. With the concept of the rear main seal, I now understand that it’s not just gravity that could be causing oil to come out, but perhaps spraying out anywhere it can find a path due to positive crankcase pressure. Ahh… that would make sense as to why I’m now experiencing it too. No work has been done to disturb any seals. So the PCV getting clogged could be the change that caused this.

Ok. So now to learn how to replace the PCV.
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I now see where the PCV is located and that I can replace it before the valve cover job is done. So I will do that and maybe try to clean things up an bit and see if it’s still leaking after the PCV is replaced (arrives tomorrow, easier than going to the dealer and bought OEM for <$28 delivered on Amazon.
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In case of emergency, break glass click link. :)

Yeah. I was fishing around today looking at things and did this, right after ordering one on Amazon, but my wife needs to drive this to work in the morning. So I got a PCV and gasket kit lockally, but now I’ve got another problem. Do I need to get a torch to get these coil gaskets out? I’ve ruined two of them already.

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Take your time with the spark plug tube seals - make sure you don't score the bore the seal goes into in the valve cover. Once they get a little hardened/brittle they are difficult to get out - a seal puller or curved prybar can help.
I bitched up the top of those bores big time. I suck. I did try to make sure I didn’t mess up the bottoms of the bores though. I’m not posting a picture of what I did bc I’m embarrassed. But I think all the damage is on the coil pack side of the gasket.

I think it was the valve cover gasket and PCV. I will post pics of the broken PCV tomorrow, but the car is back together with a new PCV and valve cover gasket. I didn’t feel like spending time on the bolt gaskets. I can do them one at a time later if I feel it’s needed.

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I wonder if that dark discoloration on the top of the throttle body is a leak. It's pretty wide though. Is it oil, or carbon?
If you don't have the tool to remove the spark plug tube seals, you can get to them from the other side, with a flathead and hammer. What you did was grab them too high up. You need to get completely underneath them. The removal tool makes the job easier, but you have to be careful any way you decide to remove them. It's easy to scratch up the mating surface. You don't have to show me what you did, I can already see it in my mind. lol.

I’m pretty sure Santa has me on the naughty list. Fortunately it’s only January. I was at the point where I figured it shouldn’t be too expensive to buy a replacement valve cover. I needed this car back on the road this morning. I really didn’t intend to get into this job until I broke the PCV at which point I had to pull the valve cover.

I believe that there is evidence that the oil was getting past the seal right here.
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I would switch to a full synthetic oil. You're getting a bit of sludge going on there from all that air that was getting in.
“Air that was getting in”? Are you saying you think that air was getting sucked in somewhere it should not have been? I would not think of the valve cover gasket allowing air in, assuming it’s generally under positive pressure especially with a clogged PCV.

Edit: I have switched to full synthetic too.
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In your pictures where you circled in Red, where you thought it was leaking, is that a port clogged with Carbon? I'd use a pick and clean that out. Make sure you clean the mating surfaces, either use scotch brite kitchen sponge, emory cloth, etc.

To get the tube seals out, 12:00 into the video is an example of how I did them. I have a set of different size prybars like that from HF. Don't worry about scuffing up the outside area of the tube seals, the new ones will seal it. You will need something that is wide enough, a normal screwdriver head will make a mess of it, as you already know.

I really don’t like the way that guy pried on those potentially denying the internal surface using it as a fulcrum and also scratching his screwdriver along the sealing surface. As you can see I made a mess of part of the valve cover, but it’s a part that is completely external to the seal unlike what the dude did in the video.

I say “NO NO” to this guy’s method. If his seals were anywhere as tight and rigid as mine his method wouldn’t even work either because the method requires the seal come out at an angle.
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I did this on both my Accords, my Pilot, and a coworkers Accord and CRV. Yes they were tight, but it was much easier using those prybars than my Lisle Seal puller. The sealing surface in on the inner ring, which goes around the spark plug tube. The outside sealing surfaces that the outer part of the tube seals mates against is not going to affect anything with a little marring. Now, if that were a crank or camshaft seal, you need to be VERY careful with what you are doing, as you mar the cam or crank, you are done, but the outside surfaces, not so much.

Exactly how much car wrenching experience do you have, and what type of tools do you have at your disposal? I don't want to throw you into the deep end if you have never done this kind of work before.
I haven’t done much on the inside of the motor of a car besides tearing down an old MB v8 (removing pistons and crank etc) just to get rid of it. I’ve done the intake manifold gaskets on am old MB, but that was for fun, not for a driver. Working on a daily driver is far more stressful, but parts are far more readily available.

Yeah. Maybe I should have gotten the metal bar that’s included with my plastic trim tool set, but I still would not have felt comfortable using the inside of the valve cover as a fulcrum. I would have used my same approach of prying against a part that has. I thing to do with the seal (like I did).
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Exactly how much car wrenching experience do you have, and what type of tools do you have at your disposal? I don't want to throw you into the deep end if you have never done this kind of work before.
TOOLS:
I believe I’ve got nearly endless tools at my disposal because one of my best friends has a 6000 sq ft shop with a two post lift and continues to invest in his arsenal. He’s just always got his own projects going, so I normally do stuff at home in my driveway. My garage is too full of crap to work on cars in there anymore. I’ve got an engine hoist of my own, compressor, impacts, etc, primarily for working on classic MB cars, most of which I’ve purchased under $1000, and saw value in their parts for projects in other MB.

PCV:
I remember seeing people with broken down cars that wouldn’t run and claiming it’s the PCV Valve and it would fix everything. “Just needs a new PCV valve”, and having experience with old Mercedes with valve covers that are very easy to remove and PCV that aren’t really valves, rather just cooled up wire that would catch the largest of chunks before sending the air back into the intake, I didn’t really get it. The PCV is causing all these problems? Really?

Well now that I have a Honda with over 150,000 miles, nearly 160,000, my first “newer” car with so many miles, I am now understanding the critical importance of changing the PCV valve. I’ve stopped taking our car to the mechanic because he’s too busy and I’ve also been economizing on the expenses on this vehicle that now has so little monetary value. On the other hand, this car is keeping us from spending probably $50,000 on a new vehicle. So breaking the PCV could have been a $50,000 mistake if I didn’t get the car back on the road the other night. My wife might have walked into the dealership yesterday morning and just bought a new car. So keeping this thing going has very high value to me. My wife doesn’t have any interest in driving an old MB, and she doesn’t know how to drive stick which is what most of my old MB are. I’ve never had her drive any of the sedans, don’t have any SUVs, and the convertibles and coupes are all incredibly low to the ground which she hates. She only wants to drive an SUV and be up high, yet my ridgeline is too big, and admittedly hard to back up with no back up camera.

I have been utterly disappointed in the local Honda dealership service. Their parts department is great, but the service center never suggested replacing the PCV. It’s been several years since I’ve taken the car to my brother’s brother-in-law who has an independent shop. He scaled back and doesn’t have any mechanics other than himself.

So getting on his schedule takes weeks, and most things I can do in my driveway quicker than I can get on his schedule. For example, when the AC compressor died on my Ridgeline, I replaced the compressor myself and then took my truck into my brother-in-law’s shop to use his vacuum pump/refrigerant machine to clear and fill the system. He didn’t have time to do it himself, but was able to give me access to his tools for a few hours.

I’m the same way with most home DIY projects. Usually I can get a job done myself in little more time than it takes to track down a contractor to do the job for me, and often, I find fault in the work of the professional. I can pay someone else to screw it up for the cost of parts + labor, or I can screw it up myself for just the cost of the parts.
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What I was getting at was that the valve cover was no longer sealed, and air was allowed in. This brings moisture and mixes with the oil. Running or not. It does seem that the sludge and the valve cover gasket leaking may be related. As RonnieJ pointed out. You might have more clogged ports causing pressure then you would like. Hopefully the Synthetic oil helps, and don't go to long between oil changes. Especially if the synthetic is knocking lose sludge deposits. I would check your dipstick and if the fluid on it gets thick, you should do another oil change, and not wait for the next service interval.
Yeah. I’m a little worried that my oil pan seal is blown out too. Yesterday was a wash out. So I didn’t get a chance to check to see if I solved all my oil leak problems, and today my wife is gone with the car until late tonight. So maybe tomorrow I will discover if I’ve solved my leaks or not.

As far as the air goes, I’d think with a clogged PCV the valve cover would be under pressure, not vacuum. It might increase vacuum in the intake, but I wouldn’t expect the valve cover to be under vacuum with a clogged PCV, perhaps intermittently with the PCV clogging and unclogging pushing positive and negative pressure, maybe blowing out and then sucking in if it was going back and forth between clogging an unclogging.

Let me see if I can upload the video I took the other morning after the job where I had two tiny oil drips on the driveway after taking the kids to school, before I wiped down the oil pan.


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So what other areas of the engine are likely to clog up with schmootz?

I need to handle this on both the pilot and the 2006 ridgeline. I’m thinking that today I will go out and replace the PCV on the ridgeline with the PCV I originally bought for the pilot (arrived yesterday from Amazon, OEM Honda part).
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EGR passages and ports, internal oil channels and ports, Throttle body.
I will have to study where the PCV sends the air. I guess it makes sense to go through the throttle body.

Internal oil channels are naturally a concern.

It seems like a short run with some solvent-like-oil would be the only way to clean internal oil channels. I understand this stuff is important with vtec.

The car does so many short drives around town. Maybe some good hot temps will help come summer time.

I will try to keep a good eye on the oil color. The synthetic doesn’t go black like the standard stuff though. Let me get some pics of the nasty broken PCV.

I may try to gather some knowledge on the ridgeline forum too and share anything I learn there back here. Time to head to the driveway for pics and to do the ridgeline PCV, being incredibly careful not to break it. I’d be driving an old MB to run the errands with the kids today if I do.
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Pics of the broken PCV valve, and a few of my ridgeline that I was able to replace in minutes without breaking the PCV valve thank God.

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And where oil is clearly starting to come out of the ridgeline motor but not making it to the ground since the RL doesn’t make a mess in the driveway.
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This video showing the leaks near the crank pulley/oil filter/oil pan could either be needing an oil pump reseal (essentially a TB replacement with a bunch of extra work to reseal the oil pump), or could be the rocker arm control solenoid assembly filter/gasket (easiest and likely first thing to check - what the oil filter is attached to).
This sounds like there’s a thread out there somewhere on replacing this. I will have to study up.

Leaks suck.

Edit: I see the 2009+ has a service bulletin for this: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2020/MC-10172366-0001.pdf

And a thread on the gen2 pilots, but yet to find anything for my 2007: Oil leak next to oil dipstick ROCKER ARM OIL CONTROL...
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I think you're probably overthinking it. With a new PCV valve it should be fine, I doubt any passages are clogged enough to cause an issue.
I hope you are right. I’m trying to research to see if I may have leaks in other locations besides the valve cover gasket. Feeling like a really screwed up not replacing the PCV earlier.
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