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2004 Pilot will have???

  • 260 hp engine

    Votes: 3 5.5%
  • New and improved 5-spd tranny

    Votes: 9 16.4%
  • Improved VTM system

    Votes: 5 9.1%
  • All of the above

    Votes: 7 12.7%
  • Pretty much the same as the \'03

    Votes: 36 65.5%

  • Total voters
    55
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Discussion Starter #1
Now that we know the spes on the 2003 MDX, what improvements/changes, if any, do you think Honda will make to the 2004 Pilot???
 

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It won't have any of the latest upgrades to the MDX, except maybe the recalibrated VTM4 which sends more power to the rear wheels.
They need to keep a marketing gap between the MDX and Pilot.
I think they may add things like sunroof, heated seats and mirrors, power rear quarter windows and improved fit and finish items. I'm more inclined to watch and see what the redesigned Odyssey will have in '04 that may carry over to the Pilot.
 

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If trans a problem it will get the new one.
If not it will wait till the engine change.

Could get the engine, but only if the Odyssey also get it.

Won't get a sun/moon roof

Doubt heated seats.

VTM is irrelevent.

I would guess the same with new colors and cloths hooks for the rear grab handles!!!!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #4
N_Jay said:
VTM is irrelevent.

I agree...you must have been visiting our sister site...
 

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Yes, but;

25 years of 4wd, and a bit of engineering is where I got that opinion.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Re: Yes, but;

N_Jay said:
25 years of 4wd, and a bit of engineering is where I got that opinion.
Pls share your thoughts on why you think it's irrelevent-
 

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I think it will get the newer compact transmission. Not because of any problems, but because it happens to be their latest design. The 03 MDX is the first to get it and I would expect that the 04 Pilot and 04 Ody will get it. It doesn't have to wait for a new engine as the MDX engine for 03 isn't new either. They are picking the extra horsepower up through the exhaust and air delivery system.

Chris
 

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Torque is rotational force.
A wheel will take all the torque applied till it spins, at that point any more is irrelevent.

A system with a differential will split the power between the two sides of the differential. Unfourtunatly the majority of the power goes to the side with the least resistance.

Since the VTM-4 system does not have a front back nor a rear axle differential these rules do not apply.

The VTM-4 system uses a clutches to lock/unlock each rear wheel to the drive line (2 wheels>> 2 clutches). Therefore the power applied to the rear wheels is dependant on the total power applied to the driveline, the relitive speed of the wheels, and the amount of slip at that wheel.

Since clutches will not tolerate extended time transferring partial torque (They work best locked or unlocked, and burn up when slipped) I have to assume that the system does not spend a significant amount of time in the transition state.

So what we have is a system that can, at will, independantly lock the speed of each rear wheel to the avarage speed of the front wheels (since the front does have a differential).
Since we are locking its speed, rather than applying the output of a differential torqure split numbers are again irrelevent.
 

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I don't claim to be an engineer or to understand exactly how the Pilot's VTM system works, but I do know that the rear axle does have a differential incorporated in it. If the rear axle had no differential, then the steering would become irrelevent, and the vehicle would only go in a straight line.
 

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Check again

The rear drive unit has a ring and pinion and two clutches.
No differential!

To quote a old friend; "I'm not sure, but I WILL bet you!"

His way of saying; 100% sure
 

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From the Honda web site.

The Pilot's rear axle drive unit consists of a hypoid ring-and-pinion gear set supported by a cast-aluminum housing which switches torque from the propeller shaft's longitudinal orientation to the lateral orientation necessary to drive the rear wheels.

A connection from the ring gear to each wheel's half-shaft is made by left- and right-side clutches. Each drive clutch consists of three elements: an electromagnetic coil, ball-cam device and set of 19 wet clutch plates which are similar in design to clutches used in an automatic transmission. Ten of the plates are splined (mechanically connected) to the ring gear while nine of the plates are splined to a half shaft.

When the VTM-4 system's electronic control unit (ECU) determines that torque should be distributed to the rear wheels, an electric current is sent to the two electromagnetic coils. The resulting magnetic field moves a rotating steel plate toward each fixed coil. Friction between that steel plate and an adjoining cam plate causes the cam plate to begin turning. As it does, three balls per clutch roll up curved ramps, creating an axial thrust against a clutch-engagement plate. This thrust force compresses the wet clutch plates, engaging the corresponding rear wheel.

Unlike mechanically actuated four-wheel-drive systems, the VTM-4 system is infinitely variable. The amount of torque provided to the rear wheels is directly proportional to the electric current sent from the ECU and can be adjusted from zero to a preset maximum. This current constantly changes to deliver the optimum rear torque calculated by the ECU. An internal gear pump circulates VTM-4 fluid to cool and lubricate the clutches, bearings and gears within the rear drive unit. Use of high-strength, low-weight materials - such as die-cast aluminum for the housing - minimizes the bulk and weight of the hardware.
 

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I read that after writing my post.
I know it says it can apply the torque in any amount, but I still have trouble believing that the unit can allow the clutches to opperate with slippage for any length of time withgout burning them up.
 

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The ring and pinion must incorporate side gears which is the definition of a differential (i.e. one wheel can turn faster than the other.)
I suppose a diff could be created with two constantly slipping clutches, and since the system is not in constant use, they may be cooled enough to work. Anything else is a refinement of how the power is transmitted to the wheels, but I assure you that the differential exists in some form, or the car could not be steered. I would like to see an exploded view of the rear axle to see exactly how it functions.
 

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VTM F/R ratio Irrelevant?

They most certainly can engineer how much power goes to the rear vs the front. 50/50, 60/40. 70/30- basically whatever they want for optimum performance, etc. If they decide to transfer more of the power to the rear, for more 'push' and less 'pull' during hard acceleration or in 4wd lock what's to stop them? I would think the result is less torque steer.
 

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MDXlite said:

I think they may add things like sunroof, heated seats and mirrors, power rear quarter windows and improved fit and finish items. I'm more inclined to watch and see what the redesigned Odyssey will have in '04 that may carry over to the Pilot.
Very well said!:D Exactly what I was thinking.:p I am anxious to see how Honda will rollout a re-vamped Odyssey.
 

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Hitandrun said:
I would like to see an exploded view of the rear axle to see exactly how it functions.
Ask and you shall receive...well almost. At least you can get a good look at the outside.

Chris
 

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xyzzy- Nice work, thanks. It's too bad it doesn't go inside and show the guts of this thing. If you come across a shot with the insides exposed, please put it up.
 

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xyzzy- WHERE are you getting these exploded parts views??!!
Gotta know!
 

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MG Pilot said:
Now that we know the spes on the 2003 MDX, what improvements/changes, if any, do you think Honda will make to the 2004 Pilot???
I think they will only change minor issues such as more padding on the activity tray seat, upgaded plastic at problem areas like the rear A/C vents in the console, etc. They will probably do some more minor interior and exterior changes in '05.
 

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MDXlite said:
xyzzy- WHERE are you getting these exploded parts views??!!
Gotta know!
Uhhhh, just know that you have a place to ask for them when you need them. ;)
 
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