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You might also want to check with Carvana to see if they would cover the cost of the transmission fluid exchange and update of the system. I have read some comments when checking Carvana of new owners being able to get some repair money from them rather than returning the vehicle. I would think Honda may charge around $300.00-$400.00 for that?

You would be able to tell immediately if it worked from what others have said and then decide if you wanted to keep it or not if it didn't work. Just make sure that Carvana if they do front any repair money knows if it doesn't fix it, you may be returning it.
 

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I checked with them (carvana) yesterday after I found this thread. They are making me go through their warranty provider who is really only going to pay up if the dealership can prove the problem. That is pointless because it will be covered under my 60k so if the dealership is able to prove it, they can just charge Honda.

I am going to keep the car because my wife really likes it and we have not heard a lot of greats things about the 9-speed trans. We just decided we will fix it when they judder becomes an avoidable problem. Until then we'll just enjoy the ride.
 

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I have some good news which I am hoping helps others that find this thread. I ended up going to my mechanic who saw the judder first hand. He saw the rpm meter needle swing back and forth, felt the surging etc. he recommended a simple trans fluid change which we did. Including labor the price was $80 and it completely resolved the issue. The trans runs really well and shifts are smooth.

So in case your dealer service center doesn’t pay for it up front, you might want to just change the trans fluid instead of putting up with the bs judder.
 

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I have some good news which I am hoping helps others that find this thread. I ended up going to my mechanic who saw the judder first hand. He saw the rpm meter needle swing back and forth, felt the surging etc. he recommended a simple trans fluid change which we did. Including labor the price was $80 and it completely resolved the issue. The trans runs really well and shifts are smooth.

So in case your dealer service center doesn’t pay for it up front, you might want to just change the trans fluid instead of putting up with the bs judder.
Good news that changing the tranny fluid solved the problem. But as part of the TSB Honda is suppose to update the torque converter software as well so it doesn't happen again.
 

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My dealer who has completely shattered my trust in them just recently by trying to WAY overcharge for a simple backup camera repair, called this the "honda rubber band effect" and that the car is designed to do it and it's totally normal lol.
 

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Just took my car in for this problem. They said transmission fluid is supposed to be changed every 30k miles. I asked them to show in the manual. Which she couldnt find. She tried to find it online, but couldnt. I obviously got a very rude person and we will see what happens after they hook it up to the diagnosis machine. I wish I had the time to run it to another dealer.

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Just took my car in for this problem. They said transmission fluid is supposed to be changed every 30k miles. I asked them to show in the manual. Which she couldnt find. She tried to find it online, but couldnt. I obviously got a very rude person and we will see what happens after they hook it up to the diagnosis machine. I wish I had the time to run it to another dealer.

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If serving the 6 speed like in our 08 CRV it’s easy pesy to do.
 

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If serving the 6 speed like in our 08 CRV it’s easy pesy to do.
I really wanted them to just update the software on the transmission. They said they don't just update software in case it made something else go wrong. But said transmission fluid still needs to be changed.
The tech drove it for 9 miles and not over 35mph. I had to talk to the service manager about how his service reps talked to people. It was not until the tech drove it home (an hour away) that it indicated a misfire and to blame the fuel injectors. I will see how it is if I get it back today.

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Got the car back. They replaced the fuel injectors. That didn't fix the car. So they changed the transmission fluid and that fixed it judder (big surprise). Frustrating because they still didn't do the update like the bulletin. Because they where scared something else would go wrong because of the update. They didn't charge me the transmission change.

Now the car is working great and no juddering. I can't take to another dealer for the update because they won't feel the juddering because of the new transmission oil until it goes bad again.

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I don't usually drive our Pilot, but did several times this last week, noticed this issue, came here and found this thread. Have service scheduled for next week, so we will see.
 

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Got the car back. They replaced the fuel injectors. That didn't fix the car. So they changed the transmission fluid and that fixed it judder (big surprise). Frustrating because they still didn't do the update like the bulletin. Because they where scared something else would go wrong because of the update. They didn't charge me the transmission change.

Now the car is working great and no juddering. I can't take to another dealer for the update because they won't feel the juddering because of the new transmission oil until it goes bad again.

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Mine is doing it really bad right now. 69800 miles. I had to go up a long mountain highway drive the other night, and anytime the car needed additional acceleration it would start getting that rubber band effect very badly - I can watch the tachometer as well as the gas mileage estimation gauge bounce. I have an appointment scheduled with the honda dealer in Prescott on Friday - I'm already concerned because the service scheduler immediately began to tell me how he is a "master tech with 40 years of experience, yadda yadda yadda, and to leave it all to him instead of guessing" when I told him I think I know what the issue is and to schedule enough time to perform TSB 17-014 and 17-015 because it seems to match the symptoms. I honestly don't know why the mechanics feel so threatened when we are just trying to help get our cars fixed as efficiently as possible.
 

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Mine is doing it really bad right now. 69800 miles. I had to go up a long mountain highway drive the other night, and anytime the car needed additional acceleration it would start getting that rubber band effect very badly - I can watch the tachometer as well as the gas mileage estimation gauge bounce. I have an appointment scheduled with the honda dealer in Prescott on Friday - I'm already concerned because the service scheduler immediately began to tell me how he is a "master tech with 40 years of experience, yadda yadda yadda, and to leave it all to him instead of guessing" when I told him I think I know what the issue is and to schedule enough time to perform TSB 17-014 and 17-015 because it seems to match the symptoms. I honestly don't know why the mechanics feel so threatened when we are just trying to help get our cars fixed as efficiently as possible.
You might wanna mention at what speed it's happening. They took mine for a drive and didn't see it until the 2nd time when they went over 40mph. Hopefully they will see it easily and do the flushes and software upgrade. I had a young mechanic and I think it might of been his mom as the service agent (same last name). They didnt even read the bulletin before telling me it wasn't the problem. Just dont let them tell bully into a transmission fluid change, because the car will tell you when its supposed to be changed.

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You might wanna mention at what speed it's happening. They took mine for a drive and didn't see it until the 2nd time when they went over 40mph. Hopefully they will see it easily and do the flushes and software upgrade. I had a young mechanic and I think it might of been his mom as the service agent (same last name). They didnt even read the bulletin before telling me it wasn't the problem. Just dont let them tell bully into a transmission fluid change, because the car will tell you when its supposed to be changed.

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That's good info - the dealership in Prescott is located in a busy area where it will be difficult for the mechanic to get any speed up.
 

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Just purchased our first Honda, a 2016 Pilot w/48k miles about a month ago. From the first day it had hesitation, non-responsiveness as described in this discussion. I was going to install a S-VCM 'tuner' for the issue but thanks to this forum I decided to have the transmission fluid changed per the SB-014 today. On the way home from the dealer it drove like a dream; hesitation is GONE. And the dealer covered the entire service under warranty.
Great work everyone, thank you. I will still probably install the S-VCM when it gets here though.
 

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We are experiencing the same problem with a 2017 EX-L Pilot we bought used and ever since we drove it off the lot it has had problems. This one specifically and they are currently working on it, but they couldn’t get a good snapshot on the tranny this time. They keep saying it’s the Eco mode cylinder shut off or something. But I agree it’s what this thread is talking about. I guess just flushing the tranny (which they said they did when they changed the tranny for previous owner). They omitted the fact the tranny was replaced before we bought it. Ron Tonkin is to not be trusted.

Anyone else experience the following:
I have an appointment at the dealer soon, but I'll be shocked if they can replicate it.
Going up a hill is the easiest way to replicate, but it happens on flat land as well.
Eco mode reproduces it easier.
If I press the gas pedal down 1/4 or less then the car hesitates.
It almost feels like the RPMs are in stages instead of smooth.
I can see the RPM needle jumping up and down.
Very similar to this complaint on the following video of a 2016 Honda Pilot:
 

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Background:
I purchased my 2016 AWD EX-L <1 month ago with ~68k miles. Car now has ~70k. 2 days after purchase I took it to the dealer in Flagstaff AZ to:
  • Run VIN for recalls & service history
  • Check for codes & updates.
  • Quote to repair broken backup camera.
  • Give car a once over as it felt like it was running a bit rough.
Findings:
  1. All recalls done & all services performed on time
  2. Clean bill of health.
  3. Dealer made a point to mention battery looked recently replaced and tested as "awesome" with approx. 1000 CCA and car is a "creampuff".
Sidenote:
Quote to repair backup camera came back at $485 for the camera + 1.5 hr to repair/install ($175/hr). I asked him about the uneven acceleration/rough running and was told "that's called the (and I quote) "Honda rubber-band effect, and it's designed to do that to protect the drive train to make it last longer". I realized this was nonsense and his quote for the camera repair was very high, so decided to decline camera repair to do myself and to do research using this site on the rough running to fix myself.

Symptoms:
Last week driving up out of the valley the rough running became terrible - the tach was bouncing, transmission was juddering badly, etc. and an Emissions error message came on.

Decided I can't trust the Flagstaff dealer, so made an appointment with the dealer in Prescott. Informed dealer of the TSBs for the transmission 17-014 & 17-015 I believed was the issue.

Diagnosis / Service:
Upon initial inspection, dealer found the battery was cracked and had been leaking acid onto the transmission valve body & solenoid, and all the electronic connectors which are directly beneath it. Upon viewing the corrosion myself, it is obvious this had been going on for sometime. I didn't see it when I bought the car as it is mostly covered by plastic around the battery box/intake, etc.. Reference note above about the "awesome battery". sigh

  • Dealer was able to recreate the juddering.
  • Dealer found error code P0430.
  • Dealer concerned acid could or had intrude(d) into the solenoid housing through gasket seal, aluminum was etched / corroded requiring valve body 27700-5B7-000 be replaced.
  1. Dealer performed TSB 17-014. (Transmission oil flushed / changed 3x and software updated). Covered by American Honda at No Charge.
  2. Dealer performed TSB 19-072 (Injectors & Rails replaced with updated injectors, software updated). Covered by American Honda at No Charge.
  3. Dealer replaced valve body housing and neutralized acid in all affected areas.
  4. Dealer replaced battery with 315900-TZ3-100M OEM battery.
  • Labor cost was $873. Parts cost was $863. Total is ~$1700.
Summation:
  • Flagstaff dealer has lost my business for all but emergencies.
  • Prescott dealer definitely made sure they made money on this even though I literally begged for mercy.
  • Prescott dealer went to bat for me and made sure to perform the TSBs complete the first time without any dicking around or any sort of brushing me off. (Insert something here about getting what you pay for I suppose?)
  • Car is now running as new, all juddering issues gone, gas mileage has improved.
I am really upset with things at the moment. Christmas, heating bills, the down payment plus the loss on the trade-in (2016 AWD CRV) and the "little things" like the backup camera (that was $250) etc etc. But at least the car is running well at the moment, and has the updated injectors and software. Hopefully by going overboard on this repair, this car will now be trouble free for a long while. I hope. Please.
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Glad you got it fixed kmc-1! It is nice when dealerships do their job and fix the vehicle without causing more hassle.

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