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Old 02-02-2012, 06:54 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default 2012 Touring starts hard or takes 3 tries to start

My brand new 2012 Touring sometimes will not start until the second, third, or even fourth turn of the key. I have had this problem from day 1 (I brought it home on 1/24/12). It has already beed back to the dealer service twice. The first time they replaced the fuel pump and the second time they told me they could not figure out what was wrong with it, that they had contacted Honda, Honda (alledgedly) acknowledged that there IS a problem, and they don't have a solution. The dealer is telling me they can't do anything for me. The YouTube video shows what is happening (seemingly at random - hot or cold) at least every 2nd or 3rd day. Note that I am not holding the key in the start position - I am turning the key to start and releasing, like you are supposed to do. If you listen hard, you'll hear that it actually starts at about 0:11 and runs rough at about 250 rpm until 0:17 when it dies. It does this on the second attempt also. I want to take it back to the dealer and tell them to keep it unitl it is fixed and give me a loaner in the meantime - am I out of line with this demand?? A brand new $40,000+ car SHOULD NOT DO THIS. Anyone else having this experience? I found three similar threads here:

http://www.piloteers.org/forums/70-2009-2011-pilot/27536-2011-starting-problem.html
http://www.piloteers.org/forums/70-2009-2011-pilot/29093-2012-pilot-exl-sputtering-start.html
http://www.piloteers.org/forums/82-2012-pilot/29891-cheap-starter.html
Here is the
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:45 PM   #2 (permalink)
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The reason I got the Pilot in the first place, was that my '01 CRV's battery died. I blamed the the cold weather. Got the battery replaced and realized maintaining the CRV can't go on forever. Would rather have a new one if I'm shelling out cash anyway.

Anyway, my wife experienced the Pilot's ignition problem first. I thought it's just her (of course, I didn't tell her that, I don't want to start a WWIII).
Then it happened to me too. It was cold then, but I thought it can't be happening to a new vehicle with new battery. It happened again, but it never did it again.
Been a mild winter though. Coincidence? I don't know.

I did not report this the last time I went to the dealer, as I thought it's just a fluke. If it ever happen again, I'll definitely let them know about it.
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Old 02-02-2012, 08:49 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Wow that's worst I've ever heard staying engaged that long. My 2012 Touring has this problem as well.

Last edited by Type JDM; 02-10-2012 at 01:36 PM.
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Old 02-02-2012, 10:55 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I would DEFINITELY understand your disappointment...and your demands...that is NOT normal... not acceptable for a vehicle that is less than two weeks old! If that happened to me, they can't fix the problem why can't I get another replacement Pilot since it is happening from the day of delivery?

Type JDM may be right, it could be related to a software issue that regulates the air/fuel mixture. Or you might need a replacement ECU altogether?

Please inform here your updates...
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Old 02-02-2012, 11:20 PM   #5 (permalink)
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This happened to us the very first time we had to start it, after driving it home. Started on third try. Episode happened one other time, started OK second time. This within about 1.5 months' time.

I figured the first one was because it was a floor model and the battery had drained a bit. The second episode was weeks later, just thought I'd monitor it.
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Old 02-03-2012, 03:00 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I spoke with my local Dealer Manager today since the 2012 Pilot also has starting issues. He told me that the 2012 comes with a different start system. If you read the owner's manual on page 513 explains how the system supposed to work. Mine it holds the cranking for almost 6 secs before start. According to the manual, this process can take it longer to start. I'm going to wait for the solution before brigging it for service. The vehicle only has 800 Miles.
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Old 02-03-2012, 11:41 AM   #7 (permalink)
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That's a good video-as it explains clearly the mess you have. Its awful and I feel for you.

I took a quick look at the MDX forum but don't see any similar issues being reported on 2012s. Their engine is similar but larger capacity. Can't see anything on the Ody site either, their engine is similar to ours but not AWD which isn't the issue here.

Some thoughts:
1: Any anti theft or remote start device added to your car after the factory. If so remove and see if that makes a difference.
2: If just the Honda locking system, wonder if any ignition interlock can disable the fueling of the vehicle leading to no start.
Moving on since you do get a start sometimes suggesting any anti theft ECU is sort off ok.
3: Engine ECU. Have dealer swap out the ECU on a trial basis with another 2012 Touring. Any difference in starting performance? If yes, either the programming of the ECU is bad and it needs to be reflashed or the ECU is bad requiring replacement.
4: Does that make a difference? If yes great-if no moving on
5: Is water temperature sensor defective? If coolant is cold it should tell the ecu allowing it to increase fuel to the engine for cold start.
6: Is IAC defective-possible
7: Fuel line pressure ok or inadequate?
8: Defective fuel filter-blocked?
9: add to the list as necessary

My own take is that changes to improve MPG have adversely affected the starting ability of the car. What worked for the engineers in the Lab, doesn't work in the real world.
You would think this kind of thing would get noticed especially if the car refused to start at the end of the production line.
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Old 02-03-2012, 01:14 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I had this happen 3 times in the past few weeks, both cold and normal temps. Here is the "response" I got from the dealer....
He said that Honda stands by the fact that this is normal for the 2012's.
He said I should just let it crank and that it can take up to 10 seconds to engage. It may be detecting high emmission levels caused by the ethanol in the gas that I use.

Not loving this!
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Old 02-03-2012, 02:47 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocky View Post
That's a good video-as it explains clearly the mess you have. Its awful and I feel for you.

I took a quick look at the MDX forum but don't see any similar issues being reported on 2012s. Their engine is similar but larger capacity. Can't see anything on the Ody site either, their engine is similar to ours but not AWD which isn't the issue here.

Some thoughts:
1: Any anti theft or remote start device added to your car after the factory. If so remove and see if that makes a difference.
2: If just the Honda locking system, wonder if any ignition interlock can disable the fueling of the vehicle leading to no start.
Moving on since you do get a start sometimes suggesting any anti theft ECU is sort off ok.
3: Engine ECU. Have dealer swap out the ECU on a trial basis with another 2012 Touring. Any difference in starting performance? If yes, either the programming of the ECU is bad and it needs to be reflashed or the ECU is bad requiring replacement.
4: Does that make a difference? If yes great-if no moving on
5: Is water temperature sensor defective? If coolant is cold it should tell the ecu allowing it to increase fuel to the engine for cold start.
6: Is IAC defective-possible
7: Fuel line pressure ok or inadequate?
8: Defective fuel filter-blocked?
9: add to the list as necessary

My own take is that changes to improve MPG have adversely affected the starting ability of the car. What worked for the engineers in the Lab, doesn't work in the real world.
You would think this kind of thing would get noticed especially if the car refused to start at the end of the production line.
Thanks for your thoughts and suggestions - I'll address them below:

1. Nope.
2. Not sure about this one.
3 & 4. It is certainly worth a try.
5. Do not know the answer to this either.
6. What is the IAC?
7. This is what the dealer has been focusing on. Prior to the fuel pump replacement, it was not. The second trip to the shop they tested again (for a long period of time) and they said it was OK.
8. If the pressure is OK, I would (guess) that the filter is OK.


Do you know if the MDX has the Honda Variable Cylinder Management (VCM)??

We called Honda America today and they have assigned a case manager to our issue - we should hear back from them by Tuesday. In the meantime, the issue occured again today - back to the shop it goes.
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Old 02-03-2012, 02:50 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JulieWi View Post
I had this happen 3 times in the past few weeks, both cold and normal temps. Here is the "response" I got from the dealer....
He said that Honda stands by the fact that this is normal for the 2012's.
He said I should just let it crank and that it can take up to 10 seconds to engage. It may be detecting high emmission levels caused by the ethanol in the gas that I use.

Not loving this!
Do not accept this - If you have a smartphone or iPad, get it on video and show the dealer what you are talking about. It is worth WAY more than you trying to explain it to them. It also makes it much harder for them to ignore it as something that is normal.
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Old 02-03-2012, 03:11 PM   #11 (permalink)
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My wife had the no start occur yesterday, we just picked up our EX-L on Tuesday it was built on the 22nd of January so no fix yet since ours is doing the same. My wife thought she might have held the key too long but it looks like it doesn't matter.
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Old 02-04-2012, 04:44 PM   #12 (permalink)
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It's too bad that Honda still has not figured this out. I would bet money its software related and there will eventually be a TSB. Unfortunately it seems many people will waste tons of time at the dealer until Honda gets off their ass.
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Old 02-06-2012, 09:48 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Default 3rd trip to the dealer and still.....nothing but trouble...

It took 3 attempts to start on 4 occasions in a two day period. Brought it in today hoping something would show up but they found nothing wrong. Brought it home and the next time I tried to start it....


this...
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Old 02-06-2012, 10:10 PM   #14 (permalink)
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What was that rattling sound on the vid?
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Old 02-06-2012, 10:29 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by humanoid View Post
What was that rattling sound on the vid?

Not sure what you mean - it actually "starts" at around 0:08 and "runs" at about 250 rpm until it dies at about 0:20. Also, the audio quality on my phone is not the greatest.
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