Are you towing? What is it?

[RinconVTR]

Originally Posted by Brolan

Moderator, can we have this thread closed? What started off as useful thread has deteriorated into a pissing contest between a couple of guys.

We are bickering, yes. And I'm not happy about how I've been called out and belittled (which is how I continually, and stupidly fall into this), but we're not completely off topic either.

Reading over the posts, I appears some believe I'm saying that air bags will have the same weight distribution as a WDH. I am not, and have not said that, at all.

Air Bags are in fact intended just to reduce a sagging rear and a front end pointed skyward. Air Bags and WDH actually work great together (that's why I installed them!!!) but they do not have the same effect.

We repeatedly get stuck on "weight distribution". I have said and shown that there is a very small weight change rear to front with a air bags. The actual amount could hardly be called "weight distribution" because it is so little. Its almost meaningless, but not zero either.

In hind sight, was it a good idea to drag down the thread to debate a small weight change? No.

[N_Jay]

Why don't you draw a simple diagram, and you will see that the angle does not change enough to significantly move the fulcrum rearward as would be required to effect the load shift to the front axle that you predict.

You do not need to know the weights, just make some up because the principles in play are there no matter what the weight is.

Just for Sh!ts and grins, use the dry weight of the pilot evenly split between the front and rear axle by either placing 1/2 over the rear and 1/2 over the front, or the whole weight at the mid point.

Then add the tongue weight at any reasonable distance beyond the rear axle.

Now the springs are relatively unimportant, as once compressed you have a static system.

Break out the old text book and show me how under any conditions any significant amount of weight is transferred to the front axle based on the height of the rear fulcrum.

[RinconVTR]

Originally Posted by N_Jay

Why don't you draw a simple diagram...

...and show me how under any conditions any significant amount of weight is transferred to the front axle based on the height of the rear fulcrum.

First off, I have done enough, both good and bad, to prove a really "SMALL" point. Its your turn to do something productive.

Second, "What we have here is a FAILURE TO COMMUNICATE!" You say "significant", while others cant leave WDH alone, all the while all I consistantly say "small", "some" and "slight".

Originally Posted by RinconVTR

They do not distrubute weight like the WDH, but they do transfer some weight back to the front.

Originally Posted by RinconVTR

This is the result:
Weight behind the rear axle raises the front end.
Jacking up the loaded rear slightly lowers the front.
(The front end does not continue to lift when the loaded rear is lifted!!!)

Originally Posted by RinconVTR

Measuring floor to fender at the center of the wheel:

Normal ride heights are F = 31 3/4, R = 32 1/2
Loaded with 400lbs of mason mix F = 32 1/4, R = 31 3/8
Loaded with 400lbs and air bags @ 30psi F = 32 , R = 32"

Recall I said the change at the front would be very little, but there would be a change. (Scroll back, read carefully.) That small amount turns out to be a full 1/4".

Originally Posted by RinconVTR

The actual amount could hardly be called "weight distribution" because it is so little. Its almost meaningless, but not zero either.

In hind sight, was it a good idea to drag down the thread to debate a small weight change?

In my line of work, real world tests ALWAYS trumps calculations. But I did take a glance at the only books I kept from college here at work. They were last "used" in 95 and 96! I'll be honest, even if there was a fitting example that I could easily plug numbers into, it would take me hours to run the equation after so many years, and then I'd need another engineer to verify it. That's not happening.

[N_Jay]

Yes, we have a failure to communicate.

You are (as always) right, and the rest of us are wrong.

Feel better?

[Fireman78]

Hi folks. New guy here. This topic here is exactly why I joined the forum. I just bought a 2012 Pilot Touring (well, my Wife's Pilot to be exact).. anyhow, I already own a travel trailer that I pull with my Power Wagon, but it is too large and heavy for the Pilot. My kids LOVE LOVE LOVE the Pilot, but HATE riding in the Power Wagon. So my plan is to "Downgrade" my travel trailer to a smaller lighter one that the Pilot can tow. I would prefer to leave my Pilot stock, as it is mainly my wifes but we would like to tow a small camper for camping and soccer tournaments. Any suggestions as toa good size/weight/brand? THANKS!!!!

[cochise325]

Originally Posted by Fireman78

Hi folks. New guy here. This topic here is exactly why I joined the forum. I just bought a 2012 Pilot Touring (well, my Wife's Pilot to be exact).. anyhow, I already own a travel trailer that I pull with my Power Wagon, but it is too large and heavy for the Pilot. My kids LOVE LOVE LOVE the Pilot, but HATE riding in the Power Wagon. So my plan is to "Downgrade" my travel trailer to a smaller lighter one that the Pilot can tow. I would prefer to leave my Pilot stock, as it is mainly my wifes but we would like to tow a small camper for camping and soccer tournaments. Any suggestions as toa good size/weight/brand? THANKS!!!!

I just bought an Aliner Expedition. This is a folding camper with hard sides (no canvas). Weighs 2000 pounds, tongue weight about 300 pounds. GVWR is 3500 poinds. Nice unit.

[DMJ30338]

Originally Posted by RinconVTR

We would set each wheel on a scale when making suspension adjustments. Front and rear ride height was huge. We Adjusted with via spring preload or we changed mount locations to one of 3. And when we changed the rear ride height via preload adjustments (much like raising the rear with an air bag), you could watch in real time how the front changed. Changing front or rear, it didn't matter. One ALWAYS affected the other.

This used to be called corner balancing as I recall. But I can't make heads or tails of which of you is right. Ya'll have totally confused me. I would still like to add a hitch to my 2008 EX one day. I will keep learning about this towing business. I think autocross and racing was easier than this discussion.

[RinconVTR]

Originally Posted by DMJ30338

This used to be called corner balancing as I recall. But I can't make heads or tails of which of you is right. Ya'll have totally confused me. I would still like to add a hitch to my 2008 EX one day. I will keep learning about this towing business. I think autocross and racing was easier than this discussion.

Eh, don't over think it and over do it like we did in this thread. Its not worth claiming anyone was right because either case, in reality, it means absolutely nothing. I went overboard just to prove a small fraction of an inch. And honestly, how the suspension settles out can also play a part in such small measurements.

In short, it was ridiculous to take over a towing thread for this!