2013 Pilot.... seems 'soft'

[lc8pilot]

Greetings! New guy here. We just traded in our 2011 Pilot EX 4wd for a new 2013 EX-L 4wd. So far loving the ride and extra niceties over the EX. One thing I noticed in the specs is the height of the new Pilot has decreased by about 2". Is this due to the 18" wheel/tire combo vs. the 2011's 17" setup? Roof rails, perhaps? Has Honda made suspension adjustments in the name of mpgs?

We actually use our Pilot in the SUV role frequently (six of us), with camping and not-so-soft-roading excursions quite common. My concern is that the new Pilot seems quite a bit 'softer' than before, with the 18" wheels and lower profile street rubber being added in favor of smoothness and miles per. Reduced towing capacity and decreased approach/departure angles also being a new 'feature'.

My hope is that all of these reduced abilities can be attributed to the wheel/ tire combo. When we purchased the car, I made arrangements with the dealer to swap out our old 17" alloys with brand new Michelin LTX AT-2s onto the new car in exchange for the wimpish 18"s. That's tomorrow. We'll see.

[norb]

Probably the wheels and tires, since its the same tires as a Honda Odyssey, no longer truck tires.

[BigWhite]

Originally Posted by lc8pilot

Greetings! New guy here. We just traded in our 2011 Pilot EX 4wd for a new 2013 EX-L 4wd. So far loving the ride and extra niceties over the EX. One thing I noticed in the specs is the height of the new Pilot has decreased by about 2". Is this due to the 18" wheel/tire combo vs. the 2011's 17" setup? Roof rails, perhaps? Has Honda made suspension adjustments in the name of mpgs?

We actually use our Pilot in the SUV role frequently (six of us), with camping and not-so-soft-roading excursions quite common. My concern is that the new Pilot seems quite a bit 'softer' than before, with the 18" wheels and lower profile street rubber being added in favor of smoothness and miles per. Reduced towing capacity and decreased approach/departure angles also being a new 'feature'.

My hope is that all of these reduced abilities can be attributed to the wheel/ tire combo. When we purchased the car, I made arrangements with the dealer to swap out our old 17" alloys with brand new Michelin LTX AT-2s onto the new car in exchange for the wimpish 18"s. That's tomorrow. We'll see.

I am not why you did that, 2009-2011 Pilots are in my opinion better that 2012+ models, I did a lot of research prior to buying mine and had the option oh either new 2011 or 2012 and I chose 2011 and not only due to price. Many factors played a role and still after reading many forums I can say I made the right decision. Now, respectfully you may not think so due to your own needs but from the whimsy wheel size to engine change to ridding if the 6 Cd changer and on and on seems that they cut corners in the 2012 model to add the 1MPG And lower cost at the frustration of the consumer.


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[Yahooligan]

Getting rid of a 6-disc CD changer is like getting rid of a tape deck, CDs are on the way out. I can't tell you the last time I bought, let alone played, a CD in my cars or at home. 18" wheels are far from whimsy unless you're used to driving a subcompact car with 13" or 14" wheels.

I don't see how either of those changes are "cutting corners" when they're addressing how times change. The Pilot is still a great value.

Also, FWIW, all else being equal the ride with 18" wheels will be more firm, not soft, than with 17" wheels due to the reduced sidewall height. P-metric tires are also going to be softer/more compliant than LT tires.

[HenryBravo]

Originally Posted by BigWhite

I am not why you did that, 2009-2011 Pilots are in my opinion better that 2012+ models, I did a lot of research prior to buying mine and had the option oh either new 2011 or 2012 and I chose 2011 and not only due to price. Many factors played a role and still after reading many forums I can say I made the right decision. Now, respectfully you may not think so due to your own needs but from the whimsy wheel size to engine change to ridding if the 6 Cd changer and on and on seems that they cut corners in the 2012 model to add the 1MPG And lower cost at the frustration of the consumer.
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Wow what a great post. I can't believe I just read someone chide a fellow Pilot owner (on a Honda Pilot forum nonetheless) for buying a Pilot. What a great contributor to this forum you must be. But then again, I'm responding to someone who thinks that increasing the wheel size by 1" is whimsical, and misses his 1992 6-disc CD changer (never mind there's a hard drive option for copying CD's to, and it will hold a lot more than just 6).

Unlike you, I've actually owned the 2010 and 2012 models (both Tourings) and there's not a lot of difference between them. Yes there are big upgrades on the '12+ (such as a much better music/iPod interface and a front grill look that will appeal to more people) but no negative differences to make me question someone as to why they would buy a newer model of the same vehicle.

[RinconVTR]

Originally Posted by Yahooligan

Also, FWIW, all else being equal the ride with 18" wheels will be more firm, not soft, than with 17" wheels due to the reduced sidewall height. P-metric tires are also going to be softer/more compliant than LT tires.

The 18" MXV4's are very soft compared to previous gen OEM tires despite being 1" bigger diameter, and they have only a T speed rating. That implies a very soft sidewall and thus ride comfort. And that they are, the best mileage/mpg/quiet tire out there.

To firm things up, you can easily bump PSI, all the way to 44psi if you like. Or add rear air bags, that will firm things up too and help when your fully loaded with people and stuff. But I would try it for awhile before making changes, I was very happy with the OEM tires until we wanted to tow a large travel trailer.

[Strate L O S S]

I bumped my PSI to 44 on the '12 Pilot and found that to be too harsh.

I always kept my PSI between 40-44 on my other Honda's (08,10,10,11 Civic's and 12 Accord).


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[Yahooligan]

Originally Posted by RinconVTR

The 18" MXV4's are very soft compared to previous gen OEM tires despite being 1" bigger diameter, and they have only a T speed rating. That implies a very soft sidewall and thus ride comfort. And that they are, the best mileage/mpg/quiet tire out there.

The OEM tires with the 17" wheels were also T-rated. Speed rating has little to do with sidewall firmness. Also, the OEM tires with 17" wheels are almost 0.5" taller than the OEM 18" tires. The MXV4s have an 1,874lb load rating each, the OEM 17" are rated at 2,039lb each. They both have a max PSI rating of 44psi. If anything, the slightly higher load rating would suggest a stiffer sidewall, but they are both quite close. The sidewall on the 17" tires is nearly 3/4" taller, so I'd be surprised if their sidewall were actually stiffer.

Different tread pattern, different width, different sidewall height...can't say I'm surprised they don't handle the same.

To firm things up, you can easily bump PSI, all the way to 44psi if you like. Or add rear air bags, that will firm things up too and help when your fully loaded with people and stuff. But I would try it for awhile before making changes, I was very happy with the OEM tires until we wanted to tow a large travel trailer.

I run the stock 18" tires at about 34-35 psi and have no complaints, rides fine, handles fine. We don't tow a travel trailer, only a 2-place Waverunner trailer, but if the ride is "squirrely" with the factory tires then moving up to LT tires from P-metric to get a firmer sidewall will help immensely at the expense of a harsher empty ride.

[lc8pilot]

Thanks for the replies. To clarify, we really like the new 2013. My wife loves the extra features over the EX. I noticed no shudder or transmission wonkiness on our long test drive. The cd player is a moot point for us as we are fully embraced in modern music playback tech & rely mainly on Sirius/XM and mp3 downloads. I also like the grill.

I do appreciate the improved tarmac manners with the 18" wheels and smooth Michelins. My gripe was aimed at how the off road 'chops' seemed to have been compromised with the new Pilot and the switch to the gas happy(er) wheels/tires. I'm hoping that I can gain some extra approach/departure angle by swapping my old 17"s and beefier LTX AT-2s on to the new ride.

Does anybody know if shock valving has changed over the years?

[EmptyTank]

What was the ground clearance of the 2011 Pilot?

[HenryBravo]

Originally Posted by EmptyTank

What was the ground clearance of the 2011 Pilot?

All Pilots since '09 are virtually identical in ground clearance. '09-'11 is 8.0", '12 & '13 is 7.97".

[RinconVTR]

Originally Posted by Yahooligan

The OEM tires with the 17" wheels were also T-rated. Speed rating has little to do with sidewall firmness. Also, the OEM tires with 17" wheels are almost 0.5" taller than the OEM 18" tires. The MXV4s have an 1,874lb load rating each, the OEM 17" are rated at 2,039lb each. They both have a max PSI rating of 44psi. If anything, the slightly higher load rating would suggest a stiffer sidewall, but they are both quite close. The sidewall on the 17" tires is nearly 3/4" taller, so I'd be surprised if their sidewall were actually stiffer.

Different tread pattern, different width, different sidewall height...can't say I'm surprised they don't handle the same.



I run the stock 18" tires at about 34-35 psi and have no complaints, rides fine, handles fine. We don't tow a travel trailer, only a 2-place Waverunner trailer, but if the ride is "squirrely" with the factory tires then moving up to LT tires from P-metric to get a firmer sidewall will help immensely at the expense of a harsher empty ride.

I would only agree that speed rating doesn't equal a 1:1 relation to sidewall stiffness, but it is absolutely related.

The 17" tires Honda put on the Pilots are a far cry different than the MXV4, they are stiffer and a lot more versatile.

You also will not find an true LT tire to fit the 18" wheels and retain the stock outer diameter. Options are to allow the speedo error (different size tire) or go to a 17" wheel. Or, if you only want very stiff sidewalls like I did, go to a 19" performance tire.

[Yahooligan]

Originally Posted by RinconVTR

I would only agree that speed rating doesn't equal a 1:1 relation to sidewall stiffness, but it is absolutely related.

We'll have to agree to disagree. ST tires have a speed rating of 65MPH, that must mean they're like jello.

I had some load range E tires on a previous truck that were downright scary when towing, but not because of the sidewall. The tread design actually was at fault.

If the sidewall is too soft then it's pretty easy to tell just by looking at the tire, just see if there's a lot of wear or scrubbing on the shoulder of the sidewall from the tire rolling over onto it in corners.

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[xGS]

Originally Posted by Yahooligan

ST tires have a speed rating of 65MPH

What are "ST tires" and where does the "speed rating of 65MPH" come from?

[Yahooligan]

Originally Posted by xGS

What are "ST tires" and where does the "speed rating of 65MPH" come from?

ST are trailer tires and the speed rating is part of the ST tire spec. They are designed to have very stiff sidewalls in order to prevent trailer sway. LT truck tires are also allowed to be used in trailer applications but P-metric are not.

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