Torque Steer While Towing

[alocker]

We have a 2011 Pilot Touring 4WD and my wife hates driving the thing with our trailer hooked up.

I pull my race bike in an enclosed 6x10 V-Nose that's about 2500 lbs full. Since its a parachute, at speeds of 65 and above, the motor starts to work especially on grades.

When it downshifts, it pulls sharply to the right and when you correct, its almost impossible to not over correct. I can live with it but I agree it sucks and adds stress to the trip. It's actually preventing us from going on our trips south to AL GA and FL.

There is a good amount of tongue weight since I pack the tools and gas up front, maybe 350-450 lbs. Is this aggravating the situation? I can redistribute by rearranging my trailer. Will a load distributing hitch help? Should I put radials on the trailer?

My dealer really wants my used one to get me into a 2012. I am considering other RWD platforms though (Sequoia which =more cash), but I love everything else about the Pilot.

Please help.

Thanks.

[rocky]

Thats a great description, parachute feeling. I know it well. Given your experience, a WD hitch makes sense.
Common Weight Distribution and Sway Control Questions | etrailer.com

[dustino8]

I second the WDH.

[alocker]

Thanks for the replies so far. It seems the nose up attitude could make torque steer worse, but Im not positive that's the case. It tows fantastic until you are heavy into the throttle.

I was hoping someone had some first hand experience with this so I don't go out and blow $300 and not improve the situation.

[rcase13]

I towed a 4000lb camper with the Pilot and never experienced this when the WDH was connected and setup correctly. This is almost certainly caused by the front wheels being lifted from the weight on the tongue. The only fix for this is to make sure your within specs on the hitch. The Pilot hitch is only rated for 450lbs. But I can tell you from experience that 400~500lbs on a Pilot hitch without a WDH is asking for problems steering wise. The problem with the WDH is it's not recommended by Honda.

Your problem is caused by too much weight on the tongue. When I pull the camper with the WDH disconnected I get exactly what you are referring to. You have two choices. You can either try redistributing the load or get a WDH. Personally I think you have too much weight for the Pilot. A WDH is going to add 75 or more pounds and it seems like your at the limits now.

Redistribute the weight and hit your nearest CAT scale. For a 2500 lb trailer you should have 325lbs on the hitch (13%). 13% on the tongue felt better to me but you can run safely with 10~15%. Getting my Pilot and camper weighed is the best thing I ever did. It's easy and cheap.

[dustino8]

I have first hand experience. I used to tow this:



If you have removed weight from the front axle (which you have), torque steer will definitely be more noticeable. Is there anyone you can borrow a WDH hitch from to experiment?

[whizmo]

The problem you mention is always going to be there, but it is being badly aggravated by excessive tongue weight and poor weight distribution. Probably dangerous.... if you get into an emergency situation the likelihood of losing control is probably way too high. You can probably get the problem acceptable with a WDH and moving gear rearward on the trailer, but it will never tow anything like a Sequoia or Tahoe.

- Mark

[alocker]

Thanks again for the help. That camper is a pretty good testimony to the WDH. I just wanted to know if I was the only one with the torque steer issue which I think is pretty severe. I'm guessing the more angle you have in the CV joints, the more torque steer you will get.

I know it will never pull like a RWD full frame vehicle, but I cannot rest when my wife is swerving into semi trucks.

I can probably remove close to 150lbs from the tongue by re-configuring my trailer. Maybe more.

I will see how that works. The next step will be the WDH.

[Scrad]

I pull a 6x10 enclosed trailer full of racing kart stuff and I've never noticed the torque steer you have mentioned.

I put my tool boxes in the very back of the trailer. The karts sit right over the axle, but I do put spare motors, gas, and parts up front.

Sounds to me like your putting too much weight on the tongue. I'd just move stuff around and try again. I don't have a weight distributing hitch.

My rear shocks only sag a little bit and the front is only up slightly.

My only complaint is the gearing and holding the cruise steady. Turning off the overdrive and the engine rev's too high for my liking when cruising down the interstate. If you keep the over drive one it down shift too much and if using the cruise it varies mph a bit and doesn't hold steady.

[alocker]

Originally Posted by Scrad

I pull a 6x10 enclosed trailer full of racing kart stuff and I've never noticed the torque steer you have mentioned.

I put my tool boxes in the very back of the trailer. The karts sit right over the axle, but I do put spare motors, gas, and parts up front.

Sounds to me like your putting too much weight on the tongue. I'd just move stuff around and try again. I don't have a weight distributing hitch.

My rear shocks only sag a little bit and the front is only up slightly.

My only complaint is the gearing and holding the cruise steady. Turning off the overdrive and the engine rev's too high for my liking when cruising down the interstate. If you keep the over drive one it down shift too much and if using the cruise it varies mph a bit and doesn't hold steady.

I hear you on the cruise control. It has just enough lag to get behind when pulling. I would guess the rear drops about 2-3 inches with load. I already have a bunch of ideas for re-distribution. I will post results, but it won't be until April. Next trip should be a good gauge, 1200 miles round trip to Topeka.

[bman5150]

I've noticed the torque steer too when pulling my 3600 lb boat and trailer. My tongue weight is about 280. It's not just tongue weight you need to be aware of. It's also the balance of your trailer. If the trailer axle is set up properly (probably is if it came from a trailer mfg) then it's imperative that you load the trailer properly so it's not too tongue heavy. Even out the distribution, putting the heaviest loads over the trailer axle if possible and see if that helps. I'd also get some of your gear in the truck vs. Trailer if possible.

If your trailer is only 2500 lbs loaded, I think you just have a weight distribution problem that can be solved by redistributing the load.

I intentionally bumped up my boat on the trailer a tad towards the tongue so I could get the boat in the garage easier. It's still pretty balanced and doesnt sag much with my 2011 (my 2004 sagged way worse) but it's also probably why I get a little torque steer when it downshifts under aggressive throttle. It's manageable but not ideal. Another tip I've found quite helpful- keep your trailering speed to 70 or below. The truck tows way, way better when I'm cruising at those highway speeds. This is even more important for a box trailer vs. A boat trailer. You'll get fewer downshifts, better gas mileage and have much better control over your truck and trailer at those speeds. Trust me-I speak from experience on this one! Used to tow my boat at 75 until I realized everything was way safer at a little less speed!

[jtdoster]

You will never know just how much a good WDH will help until you tow with and without it.

Just got back from 700 miles towing our 18' Forest River Mini Lite from MO to TX and it towed very well. Had few problems in the hills in the Ozarks, and the only problems show up when you have a head wind.

Average mileage on that trip was 9 MPG. Got 12 in the hills with no wind, but could barely pull 9 in the plains with a head wind.

[dustino8]

Originally Posted by jtdoster

You will never know just how much a good WDH will help until you tow with and without it.

Couldn't agree more.

[bman5150]

Originally Posted by dustino8

Couldn't agree more.

Well, if it's anything like experiencing towing my boat trailer with and without surge brakes, then I'd agree 100%

[jtdoster]

Honda does not want you to use a WDH b/c there is no frame on the Pilot. But I will say Honda is very conservative in what they recomend. I prefer the Equal-i-zer 4 point on my Pilot other than the fact it creaks and groans. Worried about wasting money - DON'T! It is the best $450 you will ever spend.

Though many may argue it is too fast, I feel comfortable driving up to 70 and passing or being passed by trucks and my TT is a single axle. I have been pulling trailers all my life, and know the limits and everything else is an accepted risk just as getting out of bed everyday. My only complaint with the Honda is it is not geared for towing and get's a workout, but with the scanner hooked up, I never saw temps that worried me.

And anyone saying the Pilot is a poor tow vehicle is also wrong. I would not tow daily with it, but it does just fine getting to the lake or towing the TT to the campsite. My other vehicle is a 2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee with the 3.0 Mercedes CRD in it, which is rated at 7000 towing with the QDII system in it. It also does not have a frame, but is 60-40 rear drive first where the Honda is front-drive first (better on slick pavement in my opinion). Only thing the Jeep does better with towing the trailer is power and MPG, other than that, I like the way they both tow.

I would not go over 4000 with the Pilot. And I would not tow more than 2000 box trailers or TT's without a WDH.

Get a WDH and I will bet $XXX cash that your wife is much more comfortable driving it and you will be able to close your eyes more than 20 minutes in the passengers seat.

If anyone is looking for an Awesome towing trailer for the pilot, I pulled a Jayco Skylark V-Nose and it pulled amazing with the Pilot. Much better than my Forest River Mini Lite and even better than the new Camplite all alum.

Like anything else, I wish I knew then what I know now as there just was not enough information on real world experiences.