Thoughts on new Explorer vs Pilot?

[cwa107]

Originally Posted by offroader

I love how "Sync" works on Fords, wish Honda offers something like that on non NAVI cars.

Absolutely. That was probably one of the best decisions Ford has made recently.

In fact, when I was shopping for the Pilot, I drove an Edge and was talking to the dealer a bit about the Sync system. He told me that the dealers feel its a godsend and attribute their relative success during 2009 to it. He said that almost every customer that has come in recently has mentioned that as one of their primary reasons for shopping Ford.

I do feel that Honda is missing the boat big time with their scant options list in terms of infotainment. For one, Bluetooth should be standard across the board. The hardware cost is trivial, but the benefit is huge considering that many states and municipalities have enacted hands-free only laws. Secondly, how unsafe is it to have people fumbling with CDs when they could just as easily implement USB/iPod integration.

I understand making a perk of the high trim levels, but you really can't do that when most of your competition is offering it as an ala carte option.

For a company that prides itself on being a technical/engineering leader, Honda really seems to be missing the boat on these things in the last decade or so.

[sdg319]

Originally Posted by cwa107

For a company that prides itself on being a technical/engineering leader, Honda really seems to be missing the boat on these things in the last decade or so.

An unfortunate, but true, fact.

I spoke earlier about the balance between new features and keeping reliability and resale up... but we aren't asked for things like heated/cooled seats, radar cruise control, air suspension, etc... seems like most people would be really happy with ipod and phone integration being standard and maybe a nice interface (in the dash or instrument cluster) to access music and NAV/traffic/weather,etc. I'd have to believe those aren't very hard things to do.

And I know why they won't put a bigger engine and better tranny in, like the 3.7 and a 6-speed, because then the Pilot would canibalize MDX sales.

That brings up an interesting question, if there was no MDX, what kind of features would Honda be putting on the Pilot?

[TriKKy]

I love my Pilot, and this is theoretical without seeing it and driving it in person, but I likely would have gone with Ford at that point.

That being said, I really do love my Pilot but the "techy" stuff would put the Ford over the top for me.

[cwa107]

Originally Posted by sdg319

An unfortunate, but true, fact.

I spoke earlier about the balance between new features and keeping reliability and resale up... but we aren't asked for things like heated/cooled seats, radar cruise control, air suspension, etc... seems like most people would be really happy with ipod and phone integration being standard and maybe a nice interface (in the dash or instrument cluster) to access music and NAV/traffic/weather,etc. I'd have to believe those aren't very hard things to do.

And I know why they won't put a bigger engine and better tranny in, like the 3.7 and a 6-speed, because then the Pilot would canibalize MDX sales.

That brings up an interesting question, if there was no MDX, what kind of features would Honda be putting on the Pilot?

I couldn't agree more. Honda has always struggled to widen the divide between the MDX and the Pilot. I think their current direction, making the MDX the sporty, sleek crossover, while the Pilot is the tough, practical "SUV", is a good one.

What befuddles me is the "Touring" trim level, and why so many of these very common CES options are not available as ala carte dealer-installed options. In most cases, they could even make it dealer installed with a simple stereo-swap.

The Touring trim level is kind of confusing to me as a long-time Honda fan, accustomed to the DX,LX,EX, and usually line-toping EX w/ leather trim. Deciding on a trim at one time was as easy as determing whether or not you wanted power options (LX) or a sunroof (EX). It also made shopping dealers much more convenient. Now, with all of the trim levels, RES, Nav and dealer installed options, it's pretty dizzying.

I guess it's just Honda's way of changing with the market.

[offroader]

Originally Posted by sdg319

And I know why they won't put a bigger engine and better tranny in, like the 3.7 and a 6-speed, because then the Pilot would canibalize MDX sales.

That brings up an interesting question, if there was no MDX, what kind of features would Honda be putting on the Pilot?

Most of my friends with MDX purchased it because of the brand name and looks & feels. They don't know anything about engine, ground clearance or anything else. And MDX does have better look and feel, the leather quality is different, the instrumental panel looks better, the wood trim and everything else gives an expensive look.

To pick Pilot over MDX one need to know a lot more about both cars, more than just looks, and of course you should be able to afford either car otherwise MDX is out of the question. A 3.7 w/ 6-speed will definitely make Pilot the choice for savvy buyers. SH-AWD is a better AWD system but for some reason I like VTM-4's capability to lock all 4 wheels over SH-AWD.

[sammie]

Ford had a preproduction Explorer @ the Mn State Fair. I checked it out, sat in it, etc. First off, the car is low much like the Flex and MKT, which was unexpected. You have to climb down into it, instead of up into it, like old explorer, pilot, etc. But it looks very cool: sleek, aerodynamic, at least in comparison to Pilot, LED's are cool. The front seats are comfortable. Front cabin feels car-like. Drivers seat seems very driver oriented, which feels nice. Thus, with extra power and probable lower center, it will be more sporty, more rewarding to drive.

Here's what I didn't like: Headroom in backseat is terrible. Even with rear roof, or maybe because of rear roof, it all feels cramped, cave-like, much like the MKT. 3rd seat is much worse. No one, except small children could stand to be back there. Also, and, surprisingly, hatchback does not open high enough so I would be ducking and dodging it constantly like with my 98' Pathfinder. And, because it is low, it makes access to place/retrieve luggage difficult. At least for me....I'm 6-3.

Clearly this was a design-driven project instead of purpose built like Pilot. Plus, it just seems very Ford-like: a little tacky, too shiny with lots of chrome going on. Doors slam with hollow feel. Not a revelation by any means despite modern drivetrain and tech.

Anyway, I wasn't impressed. I'll be keeping my Pilot.

[cwa107]

Originally Posted by sammie

Ford had a preproduction Explorer @ the Mn State Fair. I checked it out, sat in it, etc. First off, the car is low much like the Flex and MKT, which was unexpected. You have to climb down into it, instead of up into it, like old explorer, pilot, etc. But it looks very cool: sleek, aerodynamic, at least in comparison to Pilot, LED's are cool. The front seats are comfortable. Front cabin feels car-like. Drivers seat seems very driver oriented, which feels nice. Thus, with extra power and probable lower center, it will be more sporty, more rewarding to drive.

Here's what I didn't like: Headroom in backseat is terrible. Even with rear roof, or maybe because of rear roof, it all feels cramped, cave-like, much like the MKT. 3rd seat is much worse. No one, except small children could stand to be back there. Also, and, surprisingly, hatchback does not open high enough so I would be ducking and dodging it constantly like with my 98' Pathfinder. And, because it is low, it makes access to place/retrieve luggage difficult. At least for me....I'm 6-3.

Clearly this was a design-driven project instead of purpose built like Pilot. Plus, it just seems very Ford-like: a little tacky, too shiny with lots of chrome going on. Doors slam with hollow feel. Not a revelation by any means despite modern drivetrain and tech.

Anyway, I wasn't impressed. I'll be keeping my Pilot.

Interesting, thanks for the sharing that.

We sort-of felt the same way about the Fusion, particularly with the headroom. The first thing I did was hit my head on the headliner when I adjusted the passenger seat (my wife was test-driving). It was the only car in the midsize class that had such poor headroom.

[dgipalo]

Originally Posted by kasrhp

Was wondering what the thoughts are of the new Explorer compared to the new Pilot. I have to say, I am very impressed with what Ford has done here. The ONLY thing I am disappointed about is the lack of cargo volume. They lengthened it, and widened it and somehow lost cargo volume. Other than that very nicely styled, amazing tech features, lots of bang for your buck.

Compare the Pilot Touring to the Limited Explorer:
Attachment 36022

Attachment 36023

I know its a newer vehicle and that nobody has done any extensive reviews yet. But I think Ford has completely leapfrogged the Honda Pilot with this. Don't jump on my case yet.....but the v6 has 40 more HP, more torque, real life towing capabilities and should return decent mpg. Terrain management system is a nice feature (admittedly probably no more capable than 4 wheel on Pilot).

The tech features are heads and shoulders above what Honda offers. Powerfold third row seat is very convenient. A remote start/climate control feature standard on the Limited which adjusts the temp and seat heater/coolers to the temperature outside (if cold puts heat on, etc). A nicer looking, updated and better interface for car entertainment (music, etc) even without the nav option. Better voice activated system with Sync technology (which Ford has been giving users firmware updates for FREE). HD radio and iTunes tagging, and to round that off a navigation system that actually looks and performs with the best of them (i.e.-3D views, traffic info, weather, gas station locations and prices, live sports scores and schedules, and theater locations with movie listings and times). And this is all controllable through steering wheel functions too. From Edmunds.com "Ten-thousand voice commands are preprogrammed, allowing drivers to make phone calls, play music and find restaurants and stores from behind the wheel. Simply saying, "I'm hungry" or "Find shoe store" is enough information for the system to start providing destinations."

The styling on the exterior and interior is very good looking. The materials look high grade, similar to what you would find in the new Taurus. optional 20" wheels (seems some people like them) is a pretty nice feature. Metal speaker grills on the interior with wood (looking probably) trim give the plastics a break. Nicely shaped cabin as well with the dash sweeping from and around you.

And the LImited also starts at about $1,500 below the starting price of the touring.

Please dont jump on my case for bringing this out, but I really think Honda might be in trouble with some future sales. The only thing Honda might have over this is a little better reliability rating, which Ford is sure getting rid of that gap. I do wonder why the walked away from the Eddie Bauer line. It was extremely popular.

Thoughts?

Worth considering after a year or 2, or on a 2-3 year lease, if you can get that at a good price. Nobody, including Honda, does a 'totally new' product launch all that well, and whether all the 'latest and greatest' will hold up remains to be seen.

Just sign me as 'don't want to pay premium to be a beta tester'.