Pilot VTM-4 AWD vs MDX SH-AWD - Page 4 - Honda Pilot - Honda Pilot Forums
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post #46 of 57 (permalink) Old 05-03-2015, 08:10 PM
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Because the transfer case is not between the transmission and both diffs.



The front diff is driven by the output of the transmission directly (FWD style).

the (so called) "transfer case" is just the gear set driving the propeller shaft (and hence real axle assembly)

Which is the limitation of the transverse engine though it can still be moved fore or aft to accommodate a dual transfercase.



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post #47 of 57 (permalink) Old 05-03-2015, 11:46 PM
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Which is the limitation of the transverse engine though it can still be moved fore or aft to accommodate a dual transfercase.



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Yes, Honda could have designed a different vehicle.

I guess the initial question read to me, like it was a "gee, it would be easy so why didn't they?"

Besides, low range is nearly useless on a mostly on-road vehicle.
Even off-road I hardly every used it in my Range Rover.
Did in my Jeep, but there are limitations when you only have 52HP to work with.

However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.
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Last edited by N_Jay; 05-03-2015 at 11:49 PM.
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post #48 of 57 (permalink) Old 05-04-2015, 01:38 AM
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Pilot VTM-4 AWD vs MDX SH-AWD

Quote:
Originally Posted by N_Jay View Post
Yes, Honda could have designed a different vehicle.



I guess the initial question read to me, like it was a "gee, it would be easy so why didn't they?"



Besides, low range is nearly useless on a mostly on-road vehicle.

Even off-road I hardly every used it in my Range Rover.

Did in my Jeep, but there are limitations when you only have 52HP to work with.


I'm sure there is a transverse engine with two speed transfercase.


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post #49 of 57 (permalink) Old 05-04-2015, 06:55 AM
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EDIT:


How would powering one side instead of both make any real difference?
It probably wouldn't make any real world difference since the clutches will slip if there's more traction available than the clutches can handle. IE, if you have a heavily loaded side and an unloaded side, ideally, the heavily loaded side can take the power and move the vehicle.

In real life, if the power required to move the vehicle exceeds the clutch pack capability, the clutches will slip and the vehicle will not move.

I demonstrated that in the following video several years ago (and duplicated the test/results in my 4wd Pilot). The setup was having the vehicle virtually teetering along a diagonal between the front left and right rear wheels leaving the right front and left rear unloaded. I selected gear 1, turned off VSA, and enabled VTM-4 lock. There was an uphill slope so it was going to take a bit of power to get moving.The result speaks for itself.
Honda Ridgeline Owners Club Forums - View Single Post - A little VTM-4 lock action

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post #50 of 57 (permalink) Old 05-04-2015, 11:47 AM
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I'm sure there is a transverse engine with two speed transfercase.


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There are lots of things, but there are not Pilots.

It was designed for the 4WD/AWD most people need and not what a few people want.

Can you imagine the clutches required to hold 2 or three time the torque in low range?

However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.
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Last edited by N_Jay; 05-04-2015 at 11:51 AM.
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post #51 of 57 (permalink) Old 05-04-2015, 11:49 AM
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It probably wouldn't make any real world difference since the clutches will slip if there's more traction available than the clutches can handle. IE, if you have a heavily loaded side and an unloaded side, ideally, the heavily loaded side can take the power and move the vehicle.

In real life, if the power required to move the vehicle exceeds the clutch pack capability, the clutches will slip and the vehicle will not move.

I demonstrated that in the following video several years ago (and duplicated the test/results in my 4wd Pilot). The setup was having the vehicle virtually teetering along a diagonal between the front left and right rear wheels leaving the right front and left rear unloaded. I selected gear 1, turned off VSA, and enabled VTM-4 lock. There was an uphill slope so it was going to take a bit of power to get moving.The result speaks for itself.
Honda Ridgeline Owners Club Forums - View Single Post - A little VTM-4 lock action
And even if the clutches could hold full torque, it would not make a difference. As long as power goes to the wheel with traction, what is happening on the other side is mostly irrelevant, since there is no "differential" to worry about.

However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.
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post #52 of 57 (permalink) Old 06-15-2015, 02:04 AM
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Unhappy Still confused with VTM-4. What it does

We have a 2007 Pilot which does great in the snow but recently my son got stuck where he never should have driven it on wet muddy sand. It had all season tires which weren't enough so wound up in mud up to the body. It took a 3/4 pick up with sand tires and 4wd to pull it out. I realized I don't understand the VTM-4 system. When it was stuck I think only 1 front and 1 rear tires were spinning. This was in reverse with the VTM-4 lock button pressed. I expected all 4 wheels to spin. Does this mean that lock only means that some torque goes to the front and some to the back but there is no limited slip differential side to side. On a 4wd with full locking differentials all 4 wheels would have spun. Might an MDX have done any better. BTW the guy who pulled us out couldn't believe that the Pilot got through as much soft sand as it did before it got stuck so we were all very impressed with our Pilot. This was in the NJ Pine Barrons.
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post #53 of 57 (permalink) Old 06-15-2015, 11:14 AM
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We have a 2007 Pilot which does great in the snow...
Those who recall when VTM-4 system was first introduced, on the Acura MDX, would know that it was designed mainly to "defeat winter" or help pull a trailer up a boat launch ramp.

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...but recently my son got stuck where he never should have driven it on wet muddy sand.
Nevertheless, some will try to push the envelope.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffCG View Post
It had all season tires which weren't enough... so wound up in mud up to the body. It took a 3/4 pick up with sand tires and 4wd to pull it out.
Some years ago, a poster had difficulty navigating muddy fire roads with the stock all-season tires.
Most of his trouble vanished after he fitted a set of Brdigestone Dueler A/T Revo all-terrain type tires.
Then, again, you could try this approach: Max Offroad pilot

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post #54 of 57 (permalink) Old 06-16-2015, 12:06 AM
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If it got stuck in sand and sunk all the way to the body then it didn't matter what kind of tires it had, the ground was too soft to support the vehicle. Once the weight of the body is being supported by the ground the tires aren't doing anything any more.

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post #55 of 57 (permalink) Old 06-16-2015, 12:39 AM
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If it got stuck in sand and sunk all the way to the body then it didn't matter what kind of tires it had, the ground was too soft to support the vehicle. Once the weight of the body is being supported by the ground the tires aren't doing anything any more.
Unless a more aggressive tread would have given enough traction to move along through the sand instead of just spin in place and sink down into it.

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post #56 of 57 (permalink) Old 07-17-2015, 03:38 PM
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My 2004 Pilot goes great in the snow. It does as well as my old Grand Cherokee which was a tank. Unless you plan to take your SUV off road a Pilot is going to be fine. It does not have the ground clearance or articulation that a true off road vehicle like a Jeep has but 95% of people never go off road or need that capability.

If you are concerned about snow just get some good snow tires for the cold months and you are never getting stuck in a Pilot.
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post #57 of 57 (permalink) Old 01-10-2017, 12:42 AM
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I just bought an '06 Pilot but the MDX was also at the top of my list. I have to say that the Gen2 MDX (2007 and up) is fantastic and confidence inspiring in the snow. I would have liked an MDX but it was twice the price of my Pilot and the Pilot has more cargo room in the back which I need.

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