Faster Pilot with more MPGs, easily

[jarizzo]

After installing my ElectroCharger hybrid conversion system, I get 100 MPGs, the Pilot goes 0-60 in 6.5 seconds while towing the camper uphill, I have less fine lines and wrinkles, and all my old clothes are in style again!

http://www.sigmaautomotive.com/elect...trocharger.php

OK, OK, I just wanted to stir up a little discussion possibly involving nerdy physics concepts. Wake up, experts! Rip this thing apart for me, will ya?

Bon appetit!
John

[marcucci]

I'll make this my first post.

As a graduate of TAMU I'm embarassed to see something like this coming from there. Keep in mind the conservation of energy; generally speaking, electric superchargers are a bad idea as they are less efficient than mechanical superchargers or turbos as you are relying on electricity to drive a motor AND convert mechanical power from the motor to electricity to power that. Two conversions will usually be more lossy than one.

Also note this system would appear to step up the 12VDC to a higher voltage through another conversion (DC/DC converter) = greater loss.

Beyond that, most electric superchargers out there are just bunk, since most of your ebay variety will run on tens of amps. Even if you have an electric charger consumes ~ 600W (50A at 12VDC) then it will definitely add less than 600W of power (the conversion will not be 100% efficient). With 1HP = 746W you can see that you'd need an electrical system capable of providing around 1500A to effect a 10% increase in power (additional 24HP).

There are some cases where electric chargers can make sense, such as helping a turbodiesel bus motor spool up below it's peak operating efficiency (say, below 1500 RPMs) to smooth out the power band. Generally speaking, it doesn't make much sense for your average passenger vehicle.

[jarizzo]

Originally posted by marcucci
I'll make this my first post.

As a graduate of TAMU I'm embarassed to see something like this coming from there. Keep in mind the conservation of energy; generally speaking, electric superchargers are a bad idea as they are less efficient than mechanical superchargers or turbos as you are relying on electricity to drive a motor AND convert mechanical power from the motor to electricity to power that. Two conversions will usually be more lossy than one.

Also note this system would appear to step up the 12VDC to a higher voltage through another conversion (DC/DC converter) = greater loss.

Beyond that, most electric superchargers out there are just bunk, since most of your ebay variety will run on tens of amps. Even if you have an electric charger consumes ~ 600W (50A at 12VDC) then it will definitely add less than 600W of power (the conversion will not be 100% efficient). With 1HP = 746W you can see that you'd need an electrical system capable of providing around 1500A to effect a 10% increase in power (additional 24HP).

There are some cases where electric chargers can make sense, such as helping a turbodiesel bus motor spool up below it's peak operating efficiency (say, below 1500 RPMs) to smooth out the power band. Generally speaking, it doesn't make much sense for your average passenger vehicle.

Hi marcucci, and welcome to hondapilot.org! Thanks for making this your first post. I'm honored, really.

A friend of mine sent me the link to that device and I thought it was funny. Since there's not much going on in the performance arena for the Pilot (well, little credible stuff anyway) I thought I'd at least get people thinking about it with something that looks feasible on the surface. I really like how they try to position it has a hybrid conversion system.

Welcome to the forum. Tell us what you've got. The search feature is your friend. Looking forward to your input on more credible topics in the future. :-)

Cheers!
John

[marcucci]

Thanks. I've been working on and modifying Hondas for years and am looking forward to tearing into the Pilot's performance. As my daily driver I probably won't settle for stock.

Right now my 2003 that I've just bought is a bone-stock EX-L with DVD. No plans right now though I'm sure that will change!

[75blazer]

Originally posted by marcucci
I'll make this my first post.

As a graduate of TAMU I'm embarassed to see something like this coming from there. Keep in mind the conservation of energy; generally speaking, electric superchargers are a bad idea as they are less efficient than mechanical superchargers or turbos as you are relying on electricity to drive a motor AND convert mechanical power from the motor to electricity to power that. Two conversions will usually be more lossy than one.

Also note this system would appear to step up the 12VDC to a higher voltage through another conversion (DC/DC converter) = greater loss.

Beyond that, most electric superchargers out there are just bunk, since most of your ebay variety will run on tens of amps. Even if you have an electric charger consumes ~ 600W (50A at 12VDC) then it will definitely add less than 600W of power (the conversion will not be 100% efficient). With 1HP = 746W you can see that you'd need an electrical system capable of providing around 1500A to effect a 10% increase in power (additional 24HP).

There are some cases where electric chargers can make sense, such as helping a turbodiesel bus motor spool up below it's peak operating efficiency (say, below 1500 RPMs) to smooth out the power band. Generally speaking, it doesn't make much sense for your average passenger vehicle.

I don't think you actually read what this thing is. It's not an "electric super charger." It's a gas/electric hybrid retrofit. It's an eletric motor that attaches directly to the crankshaft of the engine to assist in crank rotation. It doesn't require a serparate charging system - it becomes one. They actually might be on to something......

[tangotango99]

Originally posted by 75blazer


I don't think you actually read what this thing is. It's not an "electric super charger." It's a gas/electric hybrid retrofit. It's an eletric motor that attaches directly to the crankshaft of the engine to assist in crank rotation. It doesn't require a serparate charging system - it becomes one. They actually might be on to something......

Do you have a link to this information?.

[N_Jay]

Originally posted by tangotango99
[B] Do you have a link to this information?.

http://www.sigmaautomotive.com/elect...trocharger.php

However: (from the web page)
NOTE: Please do NOT call/email us for additional info on this device, all that we know of are already posted here. You may email us to request to be put on the Electrocharger waiting list. We are also waiting anxiously to hybridize our SUV. Thank you for your understanding & patience. Keep checking this page for latest updates.
AVAILABILITY: Winter 2005.

[75blazer]

Originally posted by tangotango99
Do you have a link to this information?.

The link was in the first post of this thread. "N_Jay" also provided the link again in his reply.

[marcucci]

You got me there, I didn't read closely. Upon futher reading I still call BS on it. The amount of power the unit is claimed to provide (600A @ 48V = 29KW = 38HP) would work but the duration I would imagine is very short. The HP is not unimpressive but given the size of the gear they are showing, I doubt that could provide that power for any length of time.

Maybe that's all that's needed; that's where the bulk of hybrid-electric power savings comes from (starts/stops and regenerative braking).

I'll also modify my earlier comments in that you can't equate power drawn by an electric charger to power gains. If so then a mechanical supercharger drawing 20HP would not gain more than that which we know is not the case. It is however still difficult to achieve any kind of gains with an electric system efficiently as it takes a very powerful electric motor to compress the volume of air that an internal combustion engine needs to any appreciable pressure which DOES relate directly to gains.

If this system as described truly does work, even for tens of HP and regeneration, I'll be impressed. I'd question their implementation, though, as anyone who's done much with cars know that the belt drive they have will be difficult to make effective. I'm guessing belt slip is going to be a big issue.

[75blazer]

Originally posted by marcucci
Maybe that's all that's needed; that's where the bulk of hybrid-electric power savings comes from (starts/stops and regenerative braking).

From the little diagrams at the bottom of the page, it seems as though that is the intended use. I wonder though, would the energy consumed to recharge the battery during cruising negate any gains? I suppose not, else that would be a common problem with all hybrids. Anyway, I am curious to see how they develop this.

[N_Jay]

Originally posted by 75blazer


From the little diagrams at the bottom of the page, it seems as though that is the intended use. I wonder though, would the energy consumed to recharge the battery during cruising negate any gains? I suppose not, else that would be a common problem with all hybrids. Anyway, I am curious to see how they develop this.

They were supposed to have it out in 2005.

My guess is it died!