better mileage with premium on my '03 EXLRES

[sblvro]

Just drove to CT from little rock and back over the weekend with a short swing to Niagara falls. Used premium and the pilot averaged 19.5-21.5 mpg with high speed highway driving, continuous idling while at the rest stop, etc. tried regular 87 for comparison and it only managed 16-16.5 average mpg. This is on a 2003 honda pilot exlres with X1 thule cargo box, full weight of honda trail package and the just installed sidesteps(thanks tim! arrived on-time before the trip) and with 130,000 miles using mobil 1 5/30 EP. The best mileage was with the sunoco 93 getting 21.5 mpg with average speed of 80+ mph and GW bridge traffic to CT.

[N_Jay]

Originally posted by sblvro
Just drove to CT from little rock and back over the weekend with a short swing to Niagara falls. Used premium and the pilot averaged 19.5-21.5 mpg with high speed highway driving, continuous idling while at the rest stop, etc. tried regular 87 for comparison and it only managed 16-16.5 average mpg. This is on a 2003 honda pilot exlres with X1 thule cargo box, full weight of honda trail package and the just installed sidesteps(thanks tim! arrived on-time before the trip) and with 130,000 miles using mobil 1 5/30 EP. The best mileage was with the sunoco 93 getting 21.5 mpg with average speed of 80+ mph and GW bridge traffic to CT.

Did you track which gas was from states that have forced use of corn ethanol?

[sblvro]

Originally posted by N_Jay


Did you track which gas was from states that have forced use of corn ethanol?

all the pump I used had 10% ethanol. let's see, it was exxon, shell, sam's club, kroger, sunoco.

[N_Jay]

Originally posted by sblvro


all the pump I used had 10% ethanol. let's see, it was exxon, shell, sam's club, kroger, sunoco.

I am very sure they said "up to 10%, and I am just as sure they were all over the place except where required.

[sblvro]

if the price difference is just 20 cents then it was worth it with you getting one gallon free for every fill-up. my range was bumped to 350miles before the low on fuel starts to light up.

[N_Jay]

Originally posted by sblvro
if the price difference is just 20 cents then it was worth it with you getting one gallon free for every fill-up. my range was bumped to 350miles before the low on fuel starts to light up.

Using the miles to the light coming on is a very inaccurate measure.

Inaccurate measures build better myths than plans.

Other than a difference in formulation or a miss-tuned car there is NO technical reason to expect or to get better mileage with higher octane.

[jay]

Originally posted by N_Jay


I am very sure they said "up to 10%, and I am just as sure they were all over the place except where required.

The Shell station I use has put duct tape over the "up to" in "up to 10% ethanol added."

[sblvro]

Originally posted by N_Jay


Using the miles to the light coming on is a very inaccurate measure.

Inaccurate measures build better myths than plans.

Other than a difference in formulation or a miss-tuned car there is NO technical reason to expect or to get better mileage with higher octane.

it was just an observation (light) and not to be disputed as fact. how would you explain the difference in mileage then? how can it be difference in formulation when it says "premium" different brands=same result? how can you say it is mistuned when it has been serviced by honda and is in top form than your honda pilot?

[N_Jay]

Originally posted by sblvro
it was just an observation (light) and not to be disputed as fact.

As soon as you start using it to adjust your behaviour, then you have started treating it is fact.

Originally posted by sblvro
how would you explain the difference in mileage then?

All the ways we have talked about in previous mileage threads. Combined with the ease of miss-assumptions on gas usage caused by poor measurement methods.

Originally posted by sblvro
how can it be difference in formulation when it says "premium" different brands=same result?

Because the formulation is an unknown combined with unreliable measurement methods.

Originally posted by sblvro
how can you say it is mistuned when it has been serviced by honda and is in top form than your honda pilot?

Because our engines adjust themselves and alternating tanks may add yet another source of error into conclusion.

Originally posted by sblvro

With that I agree!

[sblvro]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by sblvro
it was just an observation (light) and not to be disputed as fact.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


As soon as you start using it to adjust your behaviour, then you have started treating it is fact. it is okay to get 16mpg vs 19-21mpg then?


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by sblvro
how would you explain the difference in mileage then?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


All the ways we have talked about in previous mileage threads. Combined with the ease of miss-assumptions on gas usage caused by poor measurement methods. always your assumption/assertion


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by sblvro
how can it be difference in formulation when it says "premium" different brands=same result?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Because the formulation is an unknown combined with unreliable measurement methods. which you can always consider as random population hence the different brand but using only premium. short sample size but with x numbers of fill-ups should be reliable.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by sblvro
how can you say it is mistuned when it has been serviced by honda and is in top form than your honda pilot?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Because our engines adjust themselves and alternating tanks may add yet another source of error into conclusion. which means it is not mistuned but giving you better mileage with the new fuel=no error in my conclusion

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by sblvro

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



With that I agree!

[jcantanixon]

In most vehicles, the knock sensor is used to adjust the timing. If the fuel is causing pre-detonation, then it retards the timing until that goes away. I don't know if the Pilot fuel management system behaves in the same way, but it's possible that higher octane fuel allows the timing to be advanced a few more degrees resulting in a better mpg.

However, the only experience I have with this in a real world scenerio is higher performance engine that normally require 91 octane.

[N_Jay]

Originally posted by sblvro
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by sblvro
it was just an observation (light) and not to be disputed as fact.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As soon as you start using it to adjust your behaviour, then you have started treating it is fact.
it is okay to get 16mpg vs 19-21mpg then?
Now, you are calling it fact again. Bad data is bad data, conclusions drawn on bad data are usually not valid.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by sblvro
how would you explain the difference in mileage then?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All the ways we have talked about in previous mileage threads. Combined with the ease of miss-assumptions on gas usage caused by poor measurement methods.
always your assumption/assertion
Proven to be the best assumption/assertion until shown otherwise.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by sblvro
how can it be difference in formulation when it says "premium" different brands=same result?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Because the formulation is an unknown combined with unreliable measurement methods.
which you can always consider as random population hence the different brand but using only premium. short sample size but with x numbers of fill-ups should be reliable.
I would ask how many tanks of each, as if enough bad samples might average out the bad data, but in general lots of bad data does not make for good data.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by sblvro
how can you say it is mistuned when it has been serviced by honda and is in top form than your honda pilot?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Because our engines adjust themselves and alternating tanks may add yet another source of error into conclusion.
which means it is not mistuned but giving you better mileage with the new fuel=no error in my conclusion
Glad you have such a great understanding. So if it takes a few days of driving to clear a bad gas cap light, how much of each tank is "incorrectly tuned" after a change? Getting results you like does not make up for bad process.

[whizmo]

Originally posted by jcantanixon
[B]In most vehicles, the knock sensor is used to adjust the timing. If the fuel is causing pre-detonation, then it retards the timing until that goes away. I don't know if the Pilot fuel management system behaves in the same way, but it's possible that higher octane fuel allows the timing to be advanced a few more degrees resulting in a better mpg.

The Pilot's engine is not "octane adaptive". It will retard timing if it senses knock, but it will not advance timing to the point of incipent knock as some engines do. Thus, something would have to be very wrong with the engine for it to be knocking so badly that premium fuel would be able to correct the problem and raise mileage.

- Mark

[sblvro]

Originally posted by whizmo


The Pilot's engine is not "octane adaptive". It will retard timing if it senses knock, but it will not advance timing to the point of incipent knock as some engines do. Thus, something would have to be very wrong with the engine for it to be knocking so badly that premium fuel would be able to correct the problem and raise mileage.

- Mark

is that a general statement without proof or how can you explain the use of premium in towing if can really retard timing it can also advance timing. BTW my pilot mileage is average with all the other pilot so it is not having a bad mileage but improving on what I have now. This is a fully loaded pilot with tow hitch package, ball and all, huge thule cargo box up top, sidesteps, full size 245/70/16 dueler alenzas and loaded with travelers. it is not knocking if you know what I mean.

[Sunday Rider]

Hey sblvro

Thanks for sharing your findings. I always wondered if the high cost of Super was worth it. Sounds like it was.

Gas has become so expensive I have been driving the speed limit and taking it easy. I have found that this has added another 10-15% extra KM per tank.

I may give it a try, if I can stop crying when I see that I just paid $75 to fill it up.