Horsepower question

[mgpaulus]

Hi,

I have a question about Horsepower ratings on these "beasts".

I think I've seen that the 03 has 240 HP, and my wife has a friend who is in the market for an SUV. When she drove an 03, she felt like it was "sluggish", especially when she is thinking about towing a boat.

I have an 05 EX-L, and from what I have found (I bought it used), it supposedly has 255 HP. The friend drove ours, and feels like it was definitely much "peppier".

Now, when I look at the new 06/07 models, it looks like they have 244 HP.

So, question is, what gives? I don't know what model of 03 she drove, but are there different horsepower ratings for the different trim levels? Are the HP ratings actually that varied for the different years, and/or did I just happen to stumble on a "good" year?

[TheEaglePilot]

The 06-07s are the same as yours, but they revised the horsepower ratings:

http://news.hspn.com/articles/194/1/...ngs/Page1.html

There may have been an increase after '03, however.

Chris

[jestmaty]

No differences between trim levels....

But through refinement and tweaking, Honda did briefly quote 255hp on the '05 models and then went back to 244 hp for the last couple of years.

The peak hp is somewhere around 5500 rpms, where I only briefly find myself driving at for short bursts. Usually when I feel the urge to hear and feel that sweet, sweet Vtec howl!!

So, the difference from the 03/04's (242hp) to the 05 (255hp) is about 5%, and that is only at wide open throttle at max rpms. I'm not an engineer, but I believe the torque curve between both figures would be incredibly close to each other if graphed on paper. My opinion is that my seat of the pants meter would not notice the difference, but I haven't driven an 05.

BTW- I pull a +/- 3000lb boat and the Pilot does just fine, not great, but fine..

[Gav]

EaglePilot said it...The horsepower between didn't decrease the last couple of years, it was just a change in the way they figured it out.

03 and 04 - 240hp
05-07 - 255hp (new rating of 244)

Maybe the reason that your friend felt a big difference is probably from Honda moving to a more aggressive shifting and the drive by wire throttle in the last few year models.
hth,
Gav

[il38694]

Originally posted by Gav

03 and 04 - 240hp
05-07 - 255hp (new rating of 244)

Does it mean that 03 and 04 - 240hp should be adjusted lower in accordance with the new rating?

[tangotango99]

Originally posted by il38694


Does it mean that 03 and 04 - 240hp should be adjusted lower in accordance with the new rating?

Yes I do believe it is rated at 230/235 hp.

[jonaz]

My 2003 Pilot feels sluggish too. Howver, when I tow our 3000 lb travel trailer, it does a pretty good job. The reason why, is that when you are towing, its usually over 3000 RPMs, and thats where a lot of the power is at. From a dead stop, it does pretty good to. The VTEC, or whatever its called, kicks in around 4200 RPMs, and thats great when Im towing up hills. I had a Explorer before, with the SOHC motor, and 4.10 gears. I thought that did pretty good, but the Pilot does a bit better. Hope this helps.

[bahondaguy]

First of all, the 03-04 motor was rated at 240HP. The 05 motor was revised to have a max output of 255 HP and is exactly the same as the 06-07 motor (4WD in this case as the i-Vtec motors came out on 06 and carry to 07 for the 2WD models and have slightly different specs).

For 06 and forward, the SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) revised the way that maximum horsepower is measured from engines and published a new method to measure. This resulted in many revised horsepower estimates, some were overrated per the new standard (as in the Pilot 4WD models) and some underrated.

Honda chose to revise their literature and marketing data to show the new ratings according to the revised SAE methods, so the 255HP in 05 came down to 244 in 06, even though the engines are identical.

There is no revised estimate for the 03-04 models as Honda did not retest them according to the new SAE method.

Please also understand that the Pilot makes its maximum torque (240 lb-ft at about 4500 rpm, which means that there is less low-end grunt, especially when towing in comparison with other vehicles that make more (or even the same) torque at lower rpm. Torque is what spins your wheels from the get go. Still, this 240lb-ft (new SAE spec) still is more than the 242lb-ft (old SAE spec) the 03 Pilots were rated for at the same rpm. My guesstimate is about 10 lb-ft less (232 lb-ft) also for the 03-04's if the new SAE spec is used (which ain't much).

I hope that clears things up.

[bahondaguy]

First of all, the 03-04 motor was rated at 240HP. The 05 motor was revised to have a max output of 255 HP and is exactly the same as the 06-07 motor (4WD in this case as the i-Vtec motors came out on 06 and carry to 07 for the 2WD models and have slightly different specs).

For 06 and forward, the SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) revised the way that maximum horsepower is measured from engines and published a new method to measure. This resulted in many revised horsepower estimates, some were overrated per the new standard (as in the Pilot 4WD models) and some underrated.

Honda chose to revise their literature and marketing data to show the new ratings according to the revised SAE methods, so the 255HP in 05 came down to 244 in 06, even though the engines are identical.

There is no revised estimate for the 03-04 models as Honda did not retest them according to the new SAE method.

Please also understand that the Pilot makes its maximum torque (240 lb-ft at about 4500 rpm, which means that there is less low-end grunt, especially when towing in comparison with other vehicles that make more torque at lower rpm. Still, this 240lb-ft (new SAE spec) still is more than the 242lb-ft (old SAE spec) the 03 Pilots were rated for at the same rpm. My guesstimate is about 10 lb-ft less also if the new SAE spec is used.

I hope tha clears things up.

[tfrain]

Do yall know how the vtec works? It is pretty interesting. Apparently, the rocker is moved down the arm via oil pressure, where it matches up with a more aggressive cam lobe. Pretty cool I think! And of course this is just a simple description of it. This is the first car I have had with VTec and I like it. My 07 really opens up and "gets gone" when the vtec kicks in. It is like having a turbo built into the car.

[Mark B]

Originally posted by Gav
...
Maybe the reason that your friend felt a big difference is probably from Honda moving to a more aggressive shifting and the drive by wire throttle in the last few year models.
hth,
Gav

Yup, that's what I noticed between my '03 Pilot and my '06 Pilot - different gear ratios and a drive-by-wire throttle make a noticeable difference.


Mark B

[bahondaguy]

Yes, at a pre-programmed RPM (4300 rpm in the Pilot, I believe), a locking mechanism forces cam movement to an alternate cam profile which enables better breathing at higher rpm.

Here is a pretty good explanation:

http://www.billzilla.org/vvtvtec.htm

Vtec allows good performance at lower and higher rpms because the lower flow (better for torque at slower engine speeds) can be achieved and so can the higher flow too (for high engine speeds) .. something that could not automatically be done with non-variable cam timing engines. VTEC is Honda-speak for variable cam timing and on the Pilot, I believe it is only in the intake cam.

Everything I have read did not indicate any gearing changes (although some reprogramming for the electronic transmission often happens with little fanfare), although the previous writer did correctly indicate a move to a drive-by-wire throttle in 06 and newer models.

[Mark B]

Originally posted by bahondaguy
...Everything I have read did not indicate any gearing changes (although some reprogramming for the electronic transmission often happens with little fanfare), although the previous writer did correctly indicate a move to a drive-by-wire throttle in 06 and newer models.

bahondaguy,

Good catch! I forgot that Honda changed the shift points on the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts in '05 or '06. See this thread: Tranny impressions - 04 vs 06. (The higher "cold" shift points are also described.)

The gear ratio changes I mentioned are in 4th and 5th. Those changes are noticable because my '06 trannny doesn't downshift everytime I step on the gas at highway speed, like my '03 did.

On the downside, all these changes made my average MPG drop from ~19 to ~18. But even with the current cost of gas, I still prefer my '06.

I don't tow anything, and I rarely carry a full load, so I've never noticed the horsepower difference. The shift points and gear changes are much more noticeable to me.

Mark B

[belundy]

Also note that with many modern engines, there are knock sensors that will advance the ignition timing for premium gas, which improves low speed torque 5 to 10%. The '03 Pilot manual mentions that improved performance can be had when towing by using premium (92 or better octane). I use premium when on road trips and loaded down with people and stuff. Makes a difference in how often tranny wants to upshift on hills.