Newbie question on handling - wheels

[01MDX]

Forgive my ignorance, but I am currently in the market for an 06 Pilot EXL. I like almost everything about the pilot except that the handling is a bit "mushy" even compared to my 2001 MDX. Now the question is why the dramatic difference in handling between the two? Is it the tires and wheels, a suspension thing or something else. I would love to be able to make the Pilot more like the MDX in this regard (firmer ride even if a bit harsher). I don't necessarily want a much wider tire as I live in Michigan (plus I only have 235s on my MDX so that probably isn't the real difference). Are people changing the wheels/tires for this reason? I plan to replace the Integrities right away anyway.

Now you might ask "why not get an MDX?" Fair question but a) I have kids and the Pilot is a bit more kid friendly and b) I have an MDX and want something a bit different (even if they are really quite similar). Thanks in advance.

[jl_ss]

Originally posted by 01MDX
Forgive my ignorance, but I am currently in the market for an 06 Pilot EXL. I like almost everything about the pilot except that the handling is a bit "mushy" even compared to my 2001 MDX. Now the question is why the dramatic difference in handling between the two? Is it the tires and wheels, a suspension thing or something else. I would love to be able to make the Pilot more like the MDX in this regard (firmer ride even if a bit harsher). I don't necessarily want a much wider tire as I live in Michigan (plus I only have 235s on my MDX so that probably isn't the real difference). Are people changing the wheels/tires for this reason? I plan to replace the Integrities right away anyway.

Now you might ask "why not get an MDX?" Fair question but a) I have kids and the Pilot is a bit more kid friendly and b) I have an MDX and want something a bit different (even if they are really quite similar). Thanks in advance.

The suspensions are tuned differently - the MDX is tuned for a sportier ride. That also results in a "harsher ride" than the Pilot. People are changing tires mainly for better traction.

[ecsw]

cheap way of doing it, pump more air to the tire.

I have 36psi on my tire mainly to save some gas. It turn out that my Pilot "felt" like a firmer ride than it used to be.

[jl_ss]

Originally posted by ecsw
cheap way of doing it, pump more air to the tire.

I have 36psi on my tire mainly to save some gas. It turn out that my Pilot "felt" like a firmer ride than it used to be.

But that won't help significantly with the suspension controlled handling characteristics like body roll, etc. I travel quite a few bumpy roads and, having owned both, I always felt that the MDX suspension was a little too stiff in relation to the slighlty better handling advantage it has.

[01MDX]

Originally posted by jl_ss


But that won't help significantly with the suspension controlled handling characteristics like body roll, etc. I travel quite a few bumpy roads and, having owned both, I always felt that the MDX suspension was a little too stiff in relation to the slighlty better handling advantage it has.

Thanks for the responses. So it sounds like it's not an easy "upgrade." I will probably not change the wheels just for the looks or for more rubber.

I wonder, is it cheaper the way the Pilot does it or just different tuning. If just different, I wonder what people would prefer on balance. I was under the impression that more people preferred the MDX firmer ride (all other things being equal).

Personally, I find the MDX ride to be more enjoyable than the Pilot. Sounds like I will just need a bit higher pressure in the tires and then be content with the "smoother" ride of the Pilot. Thanks again.

[whizmo]

Originally posted by 01MDX


Thanks for the responses. So it sounds like it's not an easy "upgrade." I will probably not change the wheels just for the looks or for more rubber.

I wonder, is it cheaper the way the Pilot does it or just different tuning. If just different, I wonder what people would prefer on balance. I was under the impression that more people preferred the MDX firmer ride (all other things being equal).

Personally, I find the MDX ride to be more enjoyable than the Pilot. Sounds like I will just need a bit higher pressure in the tires and then be content with the "smoother" ride of the Pilot. Thanks again.

A relatively easy upgrade that will crisp up the handling is to plus-size the wheels to 17" with 60 or 55 series tires. You'll, of course, get a stiffer ride, but that sounds like an acceptable compromise. The other problem will be reduced off-road capability and somewhat less snow/ice traction. Everything is a tradeoff.

Frankly, if I wanted the sportier ride/handling of the MDX, I'd just get the MDX.

- Mark

[sjlee]

Originally posted by whizmo
A relatively easy upgrade that will crisp up the handling is to plus-size the wheels to 17" with 60 or 55 series tires.

Agreed. The MDX has a tire size of 235/65/17, while the Pilot has a tire size of 235/70/16. In other words, the MDX has lower profile tires, which will give you a stiffer ride and crisper handling. You could even swap in MDX wheels onto the Pilot, which some owners have done.

You have to remember, Hondas in general have softer suspensions than their Acura counterparts. That's by design.

Beyond the wheels, I'm sure you could look into upgrading the suspension (stiffer springs), but that could start getting expensive.

Here's a really good article that talks about the differences between the MDX and Pilot... it even goes into specifics. It's a few years old, but I'm sure most of it still applies to both models.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...82/ai_87460209

[ecsw]

I would really like to get a MDX for the ride and all the up-scare interior. But I am happy with my Pilot with few thousand dollars I saved as well.

But really, I found my Pilot's handling a lot better than my '97 CRV already. Not as good as my TSX, but it's close enough for me to be happy instead of riding in Ody.

[01MDX]

Originally posted by whizmo


A relatively easy upgrade that will crisp up the handling is to plus-size the wheels to 17" with 60 or 55 series tires. You'll, of course, get a stiffer ride, but that sounds like an acceptable compromise. The other problem will be reduced off-road capability and somewhat less snow/ice traction. Everything is a tradeoff.

Frankly, if I wanted the sportier ride/handling of the MDX, I'd just get the MDX.

- Mark

Thanks for the response. I would prefer the ride of the MDX if I could get a similar result from the Pilot. The sliding 2nd row of the pilot (a nice feature the MDX should have), plus folding seat on both sides, the greater room in the 2nd row and of course the cost savings all override that. And I am really not willing to compromise the snow/ice traction as we get plenty of that.

More than likely I will keep the wheels, replace the tires with something a bit more stiff (Forteras maybe - I did this on my MDX and noticed a difference) and just keep the pressure up a little. That way I actually increase my wet weather handling (with better tires) but keep costs lower. Again, thanks for the responses.

[whizmo]

Originally posted by 01MDX
More than likely I will keep the wheels, replace the tires with something a bit more stiff (Forteras maybe - I did this on my MDX and noticed a difference) and just keep the pressure up a little. That way I actually increase my wet weather handling (with better tires) but keep costs lower. Again, thanks for the responses.

I noticed a fairly pronouced firming of the ride and crisper turn-in when I went to LTX's from the OEM Bridgestones. I don't know how the LTX's compare to the Forteras - both are well-liked.

I agree the best approach is to do the simple things and see if you can reach a good point for you. The Pilot (and the MDX for that matter) are really not the best choices for an SUV you plan on driving briskly - under the skin there's basically a FWD minivan platform. As Clint would say, "A car has to understand its limitations." The BMW X3 would be my choice for a really crisp-handling SUV, but of course, you accept a whole new set of issues when you go this direction.

- Mark

[Scoobs]

Car and Driver didn't find a noticeable difference in the handling of the Pilot compared to the MDX despite the softer suspension and smaller wheels and tires of the Pilot

However, with smooth ride as a key dynamic priority, the Pilot's suspension tuning is a little softer than that of its more expensive cousin, and its 70-series tires (all-season Goodyear Integrity, P235/70R-16) aren't as aggressive as the MDX's 17-inch Michelins. This doesn't seem to hurt the Pilot's skidpad performance much—at 0.73 g, its grip is just 0.01 g behind the number turned in by the MDX (December 2000) and distinctly better than the grip of the Chevy TrailBlazer, Ford Explorer, and Toyota Highlander we tested a year ago (June 2001), none of which cracked 0.70 g.

[brianmsmith]

Originally posted by 01MDX



More than likely I will keep the wheels, replace the tires with something a bit more stiff (Forteras maybe - I did this on my MDX and noticed a difference) and just keep the pressure up a little. That way I actually increase my wet weather handling (with better tires) but keep costs lower. Again, thanks for the responses.

I elected the Fortera route - note the size - stiffer ride and yesterday's 12 inches of snow were no problem at all. Use 35 PSI though.

[01MDX]

Originally posted by whizmo


I noticed a fairly pronouced firming of the ride and crisper turn-in when I went to LTX's from the OEM Bridgestones. I don't know how the LTX's compare to the Forteras - both are well-liked.

I agree the best approach is to do the simple things and see if you can reach a good point for you. The Pilot (and the MDX for that matter) are really not the best choices for an SUV you plan on driving briskly - under the skin there's basically a FWD minivan platform. As Clint would say, "A car has to understand its limitations." The BMW X3 would be my choice for a really crisp-handling SUV, but of course, you accept a whole new set of issues when you go this direction.

- Mark

I agree that everything is a compromise. Actually, if I was looking for handling only I would probably go with a new RAV4. Less luxurious, but there is more storage space and it's faster I believe. With the new third row, I am actually going to check one out but my guess is that it's just too small (despite the "upsizing"). Sure would be nice to get the RAV4 handling with that better gas mileage in an SUV that goes 0-60 in around 7 flat.

[sjlee]

Originally posted by Scoobs
Car and Driver didn't find a noticeable difference in the handling of the Pilot compared to the MDX despite the softer suspension and smaller wheels and tires of the Pilot

I think the softer suspension is what the original poster was complaining about.