nitrogen in tires

[howieb]

Has anyone tried putting nitrogen in there tires. And if yes, how does your pilot ride?

[mikesrc]

Its a scam for the dealer to make more money,Remember the air we breath is 78% nitrogen!!

[humanoid]

What would make you think riding on nitrogen would be any different than riding on regular air in the tires?

[rlapid]

mikesrc is right. there is no discernable difference (in terms of both ride quality and MPG) between regular air and nitrogen, aside from the price. don't let the $tealership fool you!

[N_Jay]

Originally posted by howieb
Has anyone tried putting nitrogen in there tires. And if yes, how does your pilot ride?

Lots of people have but I have not.

Ride is NOT one of the things it affects.

Originally posted by mikesrc
Its a scam for the dealer to make more money,Remember the air we breath is 78% nitrogen!!

Its not quite a Scam, but is not worthwhile for normal street cars.

The fact air is 78% nitrogen is NOT relevant.
What is relevant is dry nitrogen does not have water vapor or oxygen.

Originally posted by humanoid

What would make you think riding on nitrogen would be any different than riding on regular air in the tires?

Probably the many articles and companies telling you all the great benefits.
Yes, there are benefits, but as I said, they are not relevant for most people. (and improved ride is not one of them)

Originally posted by rlapid
mikesrc is right. there is no discernable difference (in terms of both ride quality and MPG) between regular air and nitrogen, aside from the price. don't let the $tealership fool you!

Yep!

[jestmaty]

My local dealership mails out flyers frequently saying that they'll deflate and reinflate your tires with nitrogen for free! ( Although, it also states that it is a $300 value! )

Anything to get you onto the property

I've heard that nitrogen fills aren't quite as susceptible to temp changes as regular air. Like in Houston... a week ago we hit 80 degrees and my tires were at 36psi. Get a cool snap, down to 30 degrees and the tires go down almost to 30 psi. IIRC, if we get another 80 degree day soon after the cool snap, the tires don't necessarily go back to the 36 that I'd set 'em to.

Doesn't nitrogen stay relatively stable with temp swings?

[RSQ Pilot]

Originally posted by howieb
Has anyone tried putting nitrogen in there tires. And if yes, how does your pilot ride?

Very informative web site on this issue, with facts and myths explaiined.

Getnitrogen

[N_Jay]

Originally posted by jestmaty
My local dealership mails out flyers frequently saying that they'll deflate and reinflate your tires with nitrogen for free! ( Although, it also states that it is a $300 value! )

Anything to get you onto the property

I've heard that nitrogen fills aren't quite as susceptible to temp changes as regular air. Like in Houston... a week ago we hit 80 degrees and my tires were at 36psi. Get a cool snap, down to 30 degrees and the tires go down almost to 30 psi. IIRC, if we get another 80 degree day soon after the cool snap, the tires don't necessarily go back to the 36 that I'd set 'em to.

Doesn't nitrogen stay relatively stable with temp swings?

It has more to do with the lack of moisture and oxygen, than any specific property of nitrogen.

[N_Jay]

Originally posted by RSQ Pilot


Very informative web site on this issue, with facts and myths explaiined.

Getnitrogen

Not a bad link, but still selling the benefits more then most need.

[krygny]

Any shop with a house air system that is dried and filtered is just as good. Most tire shops have passive filter/driers - it's all a matter of how well they maintain the system. Of course, it's also a matter of integrity too. How do you know they're really putting bottled N2 into your tires?

[N_Jay]

Originally posted by krygny
Any shop with a house air system that is dried and filtered is just as good. Most tire shops have passive filter/driers - it's all a matter of how well they maintain the system. Of course, it's also a matter of integrity too. How do you know they're really putting bottled N2 into your tires.

Dryers in air systems get condensed water out, the do little to reduce water vapor.

[fiatvhs2]

Road race and oval teams use nitrogen to control tire diameter growth and pressure with race tires. Even though air is 78% nitrogen the oxygen and moisture causes tires to grow more and increase pressure.
In racing the handling of a car can change dramatically with a 1-2 psig change so this makes nitrogen worthwhile. Especially on an oval where stagger (tire diameter) is a major factor in handling. Most tires increase pressure 3-5 psig with air and 1-2 psig with nitrogen. Tires also will run cooler with nitrogen. The benefits are minimal on the street, but not a total scam. I do not run nitrogen because the cost/hassle versus benefit is too low. Even with free access to nitrogen. I have crewed for Porsches at the Daytona 24 (unfortunately not their today), Nascar 4 cylinder, SCCA, IMSA, etc.

[sagaliba]

Originally posted by fiatvhs2
Even though air is 78% nitrogen the oxygen and moisture causes tires to grow more and increase pressure.

Oxygen does not cause tires to grow more and increase pressure.

Moisture , OTOH, caused tire pressure to fluctuate more due to temperature changes. This is because the volume of water changes a great deal in vapor form vs. in liquid form.

In addition to temperature-related pressure changes, proponents of Nitrogen also argue that
1) Nitrogen molecule (N2) is larger than Oxygen (O2), thus is less likely to leak, and
2) Oxygen causes oxidation on tires.

Neither argument is very strong, especially the second one, since outside of the tires is constantly exposed to air anyway.

I would not mind putting Nitrogen on my tires, but I would not pay extra to get it. (Some place such as Costco uses Nitrogen for their tire services as default.) $300 value? LOL!

[N_Jay]

Originally posted by sagaliba
In addition to temperature-related pressure changes, proponents of Nitrogen also argue that
1) Nitrogen molecule (N2) is larger than Oxygen (O2), and is less likely to leak, and
2) Oxygen causes oxidation on tires.

Neither argument is very strong, especially the second one, since outside of the tires is constantly exposed to air anyway.

EXCEPT, the air in the tire is about 3X the pressure and therefore 3x the amount of O2 per square inch.

AND, EXCEPT the air in the tire gets heated and therefore is not reactive.

AND the combining of the O2 in the tire is often acting on the aluminum wheel where it is unpainted.

But other then that you are close to right.

[sagaliba]

Originally posted by N_Jay


EXCEPT, the air in the tire is about 3X the pressure and therefore 3x the amount of O2 per square inch.

AND, EXCEPT the air in the tire gets heated and therefore is not reactive.

AND the combining of the O2 in the tire is often acting on the aluminum wheel where it is unpainted.

But other then that you are close to right.

I will answer as 1, 2, 3, corresponding to the 3 points that you raised.

1. Not very relevant, there are plenty of oxigen inside and outside the tire, having more "O2" per square inch does not increase the rate of oxidation.

2. Do you mean "more" reactive? If it is "not" reactive, what's the problem? What is the temperature inside the tire, and how much more "reactive" it may cause?

3. When aluminum oxidizes, it forms a layer of aluminum oxide (Al2O3), which protects the aluminum from further oxidation. That is the property of aluminum, you do not need to paint aluminum to protect it. Any painting if at all, is for cosmetic purpose. Besides, people who make the wheel already anticipate the inside of wheel getting contact with air.

Note, I did not say the argument is "invalid," I said the argument "is not strong."