Hybrid SUV's ... opinions

[OB3]

So, the wife and I decided to hold off another year, possibly 2, for a new SUV. We jsut sent in the last payment for the Pilot, it is officially ours now, so not having a car payment will be a nice thing for a while.
We were chatting about hybrids, she was asking me if i thought Honda would have a Pilot hybrid anytime soon, and i said probably not.

What are your opinions on the hybrids out there today ?
The Vue ?
The Escape?
the Highlander ??

I think these all come in hybrid versions ??

Anyone had experience with an SUV hybrid ?

thanks

[robrecht]

I think the main question is how expensive does gas have to get before they will be cost-effective, let's say within 3 years of purchase?

What's the cost differential between similarly equipped hybrid and non-hybrid models?

[jay]

The way they've equipped and priced the Camry Hybird, you'd be hard pressed to sort out the differential. With the '08 Highlander Hybrid, at least comparing top-line models, there's about a $3000 add. But they are expensive, at an MSRP of close to $46k with an average $1500 off MSRP.

The same top-line Vue and Escape are much less expensive, but much smaller, and the Vue has much less equipment even in the "loaded" model - you can't get leather or NAV in the Vue. But it does come standard with Onstar and XM.

An Escape with leather, NAV, Sirius Radio, etc. sticker's at $32k or so, and purportedly gets the same mileage as my Camry Hybrid.


And circling back to the cost differential, I place a high value on the stress-reduction in my commute by being able to use the HOV lane with just me in the car, the smoothness of the CVT transmission that's not available otherwise, and the additional quietness of the vehicle.

So to me, you can't do a straight economic comparison, just like you can't compare the cost of TiVo versus a Comcast DVR, because you can't place value on the user experience, the value of recordings that the Comcast DVR won't record, etc. Just like you can't compare the iPhone user experience to a crap WM6 device.

[robrecht]

Originally posted by jay
Just like you can't compare the iPhone user experience to a crap WM6 device.

LOL! Learned how to post pics from your iPhone yet?

[rocky]

Its going to be interesting to see whether Honda and others charge a premium for diesels.

In Europe when diesels weren't popular there was a premium. No premium today.

Watch for hybrid pricing premium to drop if Toyota considers diesel a threat to its hybrid franchise

[jay]

Originally posted by rocky
Its going to be interesting to see whether Honda and others charge a premium for diesels.

In Europe when diesels weren't popular there was a premium. No premium today.

Watch for hybrid pricing premium to drop if Toyota considers diesel a threat to its hybrid franchise

With the eye-popping price of deisel in this country (regularly 50 cents more a gallon), and the old myth drawbacks to overcome, where's the threat? I wouldn't take a diesel Chevette if you paid me to take it off your hands, no matter what Joe Isuzu said!

[jdeanski]

Originally posted by rocky
Its going to be interesting to see whether Honda and others charge a premium for diesels.

What's going to be really interesting is if you will see diesels at all in the near future from Honda. My money is on we won't.

[N_Jay]

Originally posted by jdeanski


What's going to be really interesting is if you will see diesels at all in the near future from Honda. My money is on we won't.

Why?

They have one of the best small diesel engines, and starting next year auto-diesel will be readily available over here.

Diesel has a 20% to 40% advantage in MPG.

[krygny]

Originally posted by OB3
...
What are your opinions on the hybrids out there today ?
...

Overpriced, under-performing and unproven. (Sorry, but you asked. )

[jdeanski]

Originally posted by N_Jay


Why?

They have one of the best small diesel engines, and starting next year auto-diesel will be readily available over here.

Diesel has a 20% to 40% advantage in MPG.

To the AVERAGE consumer diesels are noisy, smelly, sooty and "I'm not driving a Petertbilt"... plus......have you seen the price of diesel lately? Sorry N-Jay.........it will take a lot for diesels to catch on and Honda is far too conservative of a company.

[krygny]

Originally posted by jdeanski


To the AVERAGE consumer diesels are noisy, smelly, sooty and "I'm not driving a Petertbilt"... plus......have you seen the price of diesel lately? Sorry N-Jay.........it will take a lot for diesels to catch on and Honda is far too conservative of a company.

The only real problem with a diesel is figuring out how to get the rest of the car to last as long as the engine.

I sense a trend in the coming years back toward diesels because of their simplicity, reliability, efficiency and versatility in fuels. I understand Honda has an extensive diesel development program with the specific intent to bring them to market, not just concepts. And who's got better engines than Honda?

[jdeanski]

Originally posted by jdeanski


To the AVERAGE consumer diesels are noisy, smelly, sooty and "I'm not driving a Petertbilt"... plus......have you seen the price of diesel lately? Sorry N-Jay.........it will take a lot for diesels to catch on and Honda is far too conservative of a company.

From Business Week:http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...4/b4007079.htm

"Elegant or not, diesel may prove to be a tough sell to Americans. Diesels represent more than 40% of new car sales in Europe, where the cleaner brand of the fuel has been available since 1997. But stateside, diesel still conjures up images of smoke-belching 18-wheelers. Americans of a certain age haven't forgotten Detroit's flirtation with diesel during the 1970s, which left behind a trail of lemons such as an ill-fated version of the Oldsmobile Cutlass."

"To sell skeptical Americans, Honda may borrow a page from its British marketing handbook. The carmaker introduced diesel-powered cars there in 2004 with an award-winning 90-second animated TV spot. The ad shows bunnies, flowers, and rainbows destroying smelly diesel engines as Garrison Keillor, host of National Public Radio's A Prairie Home Companion, croons a tune about "positive hate."

I just can't see this changing minds on this side of the pond.
The TV spot: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXf5UUnLzwQ

[N_Jay]

I would bet that 5 years from now, diesels outsell hybrids.
(Unless the Dem/Libs write some more hybrid favoring legislation)

[robrecht]

Originally posted by jdeanski
"To sell skeptical Americans, Honda may borrow a page from its British marketing handbook. The carmaker introduced diesel-powered cars there in 2004 with an award-winning 90-second animated TV spot. The ad shows bunnies, flowers, and rainbows destroying smelly diesel engines as Garrison Keillor, host of National Public Radio's A Prairie Home Companion, croons a tune about "positive hate."

I just can't see this changing minds on this side of the pond.
The TV spot: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXf5UUnLzwQ

What a bizarre ad! I suppose it sticks in your mind and makes you think a little bit.

[robrecht]

Originally posted by jay
With the eye-popping price of deisel in this country (regularly 50 cents more a gallon), and the old myth drawbacks to overcome, where's the threat? I wouldn't take a diesel Chevette if you paid me to take it off your hands, no matter what Joe Isuzu said!

Why is Diesel so much more? In the past, it was more a function of demand and distribution decisions, and in fact was less expensive to produce than gasoline, but price at the pump was not a function of production costs. Are the newer low sulfer Diesel fuels much more expensive to produce? Or is it still more a matter of market dynamics?

BTW, I wouldn't want to drive my old Diesel Rabbit again, but I wouldn't complain about its 60 mpg highway economy, and that was with 1979 technology.