Honda Dropping Accord Hybrid

[robottik]

Just saw this... (and I don't think anyone is surprised by it, based on the rumors that were ging around)

Honda Dropping Accord Hybrid - Next generation Accord will not have hybrid version, diesel option possible.

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- The new Honda Accord, which will go on sale in September, will not be available in a gasoline-electric hybrid version, according to a company spokesman.

"We have found that our hybrid system works better on smaller cars," said Chris Naughton, a Honda spokesman.

Honda previously announced that it will introduce a new hybrid car in 2009. That car will be smaller in size and less expensive than the Honda Civic Hybrid. The Accord, a midsized car, is larger and more expensive than the Civic.

Honda currently makes a hybrid Accord that's engineered to provide a balance of performance and fuel economy, using a 6-cylinder gasoline engine rather than a smaller 4-cylinder engine.

The competing Toyota Camry Hybrid uses a four-cylinder engine resulting in considerably better fuel economy than the Accord Hybrid.

Hybrids accounted for 14 percent of Camrys sold last month, but just 1.4 percent of Accords, according to data from Power Information Networks, an auto research firm. The Accord and Camry are the two best-selling passenger cars in the United States.

"We have seen that what interests hybrid consumers is ultimate fuel economy," Naughton said.

Honda has previously said it will introduce a new 4-cylinder diesel engine in the United States by 2009. Diesel engines get considerably better fuel economy than gasoline engines without the technical complexity of gasoline-electric hybrid systems.

With cleaner diesel fuel available here, allowing engines to meet strict emissions requirements, diesel cars will become more widely available in this country in coming years.

Honda has not said whether the Accord would get the diesel engine. The European version of the Accord - a car sold in the United States as the Acura TSX - is available in Europe with a diesel engine.

[Mainer]

They should have done like the Camry and gone for economy rather than performance. Nobody buys a hybrid because it's the fastest model. They just want decent acceleration and high gas mileage.

[robottik]

Originally posted by Mainer
They should have done like the Camry and gone for economy rather than performance. Nobody buys a hybrid because it's the fastest model. They just want decent acceleration and high gas mileage.

Agree. Honda misread the market on the Accord Hybrid.

[GreenMachine]

From Edmunds.com

TOKYO — In what may signal a major strategy shift by Honda, the Japanese automaker will phase out the gas-electric version of its Accord next year and replace it with a clean diesel, according to the Nikkei.

The move is expected to reflect Honda's future emphasis on clean diesels, in contrast to Toyota's focus on hybrids. The report says Honda will offer clean diesel options in its CR-V and Odyssey minivan as well.

In North America, Honda apparently will only offer hybrid systems in its smallest vehicles, including the Civic and a Fit-based subcompact car.

Inside Line has learned from supplier sources that the upcoming Accord diesel is likely to be a torquey 2.5-liter unit that gets 45 mpg on the highway and is inspired by diesels from Fiat and Renault. Honda is also said to be working on multiple-displacement diesels for the U.S. market. The move toward diesels by Honda is seen as a very significant step that may ultimately rewrite the book on diesels, since Honda is widely viewed as a leader in powertrain engineering. The Accord diesel is also expected to help Honda regain sales momentum that it has lost to Toyota in the alt-fuel fight.

[ramirami]

Originally posted by Mainer
They should have done like the Camry and gone for economy rather than performance. Nobody buys a hybrid because it's the fastest model. They just want decent acceleration and high gas mileage.

but people buy Honda Accords for Performance (unlike the Camrys).

[rocky]

Originally posted by ramirami


but people buy Honda Accords for Performance (unlike the Camrys).

This is like the Miller light ads.

Taste Great....less filling.

Lets face it.

The Honda Accord hybrid totally missed the market. Toyota nailed the market pretty good.

[dgipalo]

Originally posted by rocky


This is like the Miller light ads.

Taste Great....less filling.

Lets face it.

The Honda Accord hybrid totally missed the market. Toyota nailed the market pretty good.

If my experience is typical, not necessarily. The Accord hybrid was sticker-priced $3K or so above a V6 EX. However, the V6 EX could be had for $2K below sticker without even trying, while the hybrid was not discounted at all by the local dealers (and was in fact surcharged). The $5K+ difference, with less equipment (lack of sunroof, for example), made a marginal value proposition totally out of whack.

Given how the marketing went, I suspect that the Accord hybrid, and its VERY limited availability (at least per the local dealers) was mainly a publicity stunt, rather than an intended volume seller. The Camry hybrid availability has been decent in this area, albeit with a premium (but not as outrageous one as the Accords). Maybe the situation was different in other parts of the country, by in NE Florida at least, IMHO the Accord was killed by Honda's marketing and dealers' greed.

[jdeanski]

Originally posted by GreenMachine
From Edmunds.com
"The move is expected to reflect Honda's future emphasis on clean diesels, in contrast to Toyota's focus on hybrids. "

I think Honda will lose this battle, the public is more attuned to to hybrids than diesels.

[N_Jay]

Originally posted by jdeanski


I think Honda will lose this battle, the public is more attuned to to hybrids than diesels.

Only temporarily, mostly due to the (stupid) hype by (no-nothing) celebrities.

[AJR]

To me, even the quietest diesel is still a loud engine! I don't know if I would ever buy a diesel.

What they failed to mention is that on top of all the things dgipalo listed above, the Accord Hybrid has no trunk space because it's all being used by the batteries! Why would I buy a nice car to take trips with the family only to have to get a roof rack or sit next to the luggage!

I can't believe that Honda missed the mark on the Accord Hybrid, considering how well they did with the Civic Hybrid. I would have thought the Civic Hybrid would have done much better in sales, but Toyota just promoted the hell out of the Prius, whereas I've seen 1 commercial for the Civic Hybrid. I love mine. I think its as spacious and comfortable as the Accord! I would have liked more choices in colors, but I could care less about leather seats. I tried to get my wife to get one too. She drove mine for the first 3 weeks and really did like it, but she had a minivan for 7 years, and to her she felt confined to a smaller space than the van, and just kept thinking "I need more room"... so she got the Pilot EX-L.

[ramirami]

Originally posted by rocky


This is like the Miller light ads.

Taste Great....less filling.

unless the twins are fighting about it

[sski]

First off let me say I am a Honda fan but I think part of Honda's problem with hybrids is what you get for what you pay.

Accord Hybrid = 31K, 28 city/35 hwy mpg
Camry Hybrid = 26K, 40 city/38 hwy mpg

Civic Hybrid = 22K, 49 city/51 hwy mpg
Prius Hybrid = 22K, 60 city/51 hwy mpg
Civic EX = 18k, 30 city/40 hwy mpg

In both comparisons (Accord/Camry, Civic/Prius) Toyota appears to be the logical choice. "Hmmm, I can either have an Accord or a Camry plus a (jetski/motorcycle/plasma tv/vacation etc...) for the same money. It's not like I'm comparing the Accord to a Chevy Malibu here. The Camry is a very real alternative. Even within the Honda family, the regular Civic is 4K less and the difference on the hwy is 11 mpg. I commute on the hwy and recall figuring it would take several years just to break even on a Civic Hybrid.

For the type of driving I do I would look seriously at a Honda Diesel, but I'm afraid it will be too expensive. Honda does not seem to be able to find the balance between engineering and price point the way Toyota has. Toyota appears to put out a better product, for less money. They are not taking a loss on their vehicles. They are now #1.

When it comes time to replace my vehicles I will go 2 places (A Honda dealer and a Toyota dealer). I really like Honda so I hope they can show me something that demonstrates they are the better choice.

[sjlee]

I think a big problem with the Accord Hybrid is the higher price with only about a 4 MPG increase over the regular Accord.

Unlike the Prius, it's easy for someone to determine how much more they are paying for the electric engine on an Accord Hybrid.

The Prius is a nice car. My sister-in-law has one, and I've driven it. It rides very smooth and is quiet. There's plenty of cargo room (they frequently travel with their two kids, two dogs and luggage). My only gripe is the slow acceleration. It's not horrible (0-60 in about 10 sec), but not really enough zip for me. Obviously with a car like that, you don't really expect it.

I think many people also like to show others that they are driving a "green" car. With the Civic Hybrid, it's not really as noticeable that you're driving a hybrid.

Honda really lost out with the Insight. It was very impractical, and they never redesigned it. The first Prius looked like a miniature Corolla and didn't sell very well.

[Mainer]

If Honda had put a 4 cyl engine coupled with hybrid technology - they would have had a winner. I would probably have bought it over my hybrid Camry. They could have called it the E-ccord.

[sski]

I know this is a bit of thread drift but I researched my numbers on the US mfgr sites since most members here are American. Out of curiosity I checked Canadian numbers and a Prius here costs 31K Cdn compared to 22K USD in the states. Based on the CDN dollar sitting at about .94 against the US dollar we should be paying about 23.4K up here. Bear in mind we pay 14% tax on top of the 31K tag Toyota demands up here. I didn't mind the tax so much as it supports a social and health care system that differs from the US model, but I don't see why we get stung for an extra 7.6K on MSRP.

I actually think all Prius's are built in Japan (or now China) so its not even a matter of different labour rates between the US and Cdn.

Can someone explain this to me?? This kinda reopens discussion of hopping across the border and buying from a NY Toyata dealer. I can't imagine the duties, import taxes etc would cost 7.6 K, would they??