Question about HDTV

[ramirami]

Ok...so this has nothing to do with the Pilot (well that why is under "Off Topic" )

Basically I am looking to buy a Big screen TV. However I am confused about the difference between TVs which are HDTV and those that are called HDTV Monitors (is this same as HDTV ready??).

Any help...:

[acheslow]

Yes, generally an HDTV "monitor" will mean HDTV "ready" - meaning that it does not come with an HDTV tuner but can accept and display high definition sources such as external HDTV tuners. However, just because a set is advertised as an HDTV and not a "monitor" does not mean that a high-def tuner is necessarily included. Usually it is not. The best place to learn about and ask questions about High Def is AVSForum.com:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forum...p?s=&forumid=6

[bcclements]

Originally posted by ramirami
Ok...so this has nothing to do with the Pilot (well that why is under "Off Topic" )

Basically I am looking to buy a Big screen TV. However I am confused about the difference between TVs which are HDTV and those that are called HDTV Monitors (is this same as HDTV ready??).

Any help...:

I will do my best.

For true HDTV you need:

1) a 16:9 aspect ratio wide-screen display.

2) a display device with a screen resolution that will display 720P (720 line progressive scan) in a native format. Unfortunately, there lower cost displays that won't do 720P without processing (compressing) the image, so be aware. Be prepared to pay about $2,000 more for a true 720P display. Samsung or Mitsubishi is a good choice for a rear projection large screen monitor.

3) an off-the-air TV tuner that receives HDTV broadcasts. Many HDTV displays lack a real HDTV tuner so you might need an external component to receive HDTV broadcasts. Some HDTV tuners have built-in DSS Direct TV tuners. Direct TV has some great HD only channels, especially HDNet. Look at Sony or Zenith for a combination tuner and Samsung for off-the-air only.

Below is a useful link. Find the search box and enter HDTV.
HDTV Info

[GlenH]

These comments are not necessarily true.

1. While HDTV is a native 16x9 widescreen format, there are many available 4x3 (regular more square looking) TVs available that can also display HD content that is letterboxed (black bars on top and bottom). That said, I would stick with the 16x9 widescreen TVs as more and more programming is coming out in widescreen and practically ALL DVDs are widescreen.

2. 720p is not the only HD format. You do not need a 720p set to display true high definition. In the U.S. there are 2 main HD formats - 720p and 1080i.

Currently, CBS, NBC, WB, HBO, Showtime, PBS, and HDNet transmit in 1080i.

Currently, ABC, ESPN transmit in 720p. Fox Sports and Fox network has also made a commitment to 720p in their future HD broadcasts.

The majority of HD and HD ready TVs available outputs in 1080i. Regardless of whether you buy an HDTV that displays 1080i or 720p, it is really not that big of a deal. This is because you will typically need to connect an HD receiver to your TV. Practically every HD receiver can receive 720p and 1080i, and covert it and output it in either 720p or 1080i to your TV. So, you will be able to watch ALL HD programming available on your TV even if your TV can only display 1080i or 720p. It is VERY RARE to find an HDTV available today that can natively display BOTH 1080i and 720p.

It is important to determine how you currently receive your TV signals. Is it OTA (over the air), DirecTV, cable, DishNetwork? Depending on how you receive your TV signals, there are a bunch of options for receiving HD programming.

Glen

Originally posted by bcclements


I will do my best.

For true HDTV you need:

1) a 16:9 aspect ratio wide-screen display.

2) a display device with a screen resolution that will display 720P (720 line progressive scan) in a native format. Unfortunately, there lower cost displays that won't do 720P without processing (compressing) the image, so be aware. Be prepared to pay about $2,000 more for a true 720P display. Samsung or Mitsubishi is a good choice for a rear projection large screen monitor.

3) an off-the-air TV tuner that receives HDTV broadcasts. Many HDTV displays lack a real HDTV tuner so you might need an external component to receive HDTV broadcasts. Some HDTV tuners have built-in DSS Direct TV tuners. Direct TV has some great HD only channels, especially HDNet. Look at Sony or Zenith for a combination tuner and Samsung for off-the-air only.

Below is a useful link. Find the search box and enter HDTV.
HDTV Info

[bcclements]

Originally posted by GlenH
These comments are not necessarily true.


2. 720p is not the only HD format. You do not need a 720p set to display true high definition. In the U.S. there are 2 main HD formats - 720p and 1080i.


Glen

Good info Glen.

I would argue that 720p furnishes more true lines of resolution so has the potential for the best picture.

Granted 1080i is an accepted standard for HD, there are only 540 scan lines displayed per field where as 720p displays 720 lines per field and can provide more detail.

Ultimately the picture quality is no better than the source.

Personally, I would invest in the highest scan rate display I could afford and most 1080i displays are already obsolete.

[ramirami]

Originally posted by GlenH

It is important to determine how you currently receive your TV signals. Is it OTA (over the air), DirecTV, cable, DishNetwork? Depending on how you receive your TV signals, there are a bunch of options for receiving HD programming.

Glen

great info....
tell me if my understanding is correct...

HDTV moniter and HDTV ready are the same.

If I buy a HDTV monitor I will get HDTV if I have digital HD cable or satellite ....

However to get HDTV OTA I will need a HDTV box...

m I correct????

[bcclements]

Originally posted by ramirami


great info....
tell me if my understanding is correct...

HDTV moniter and HDTV ready are the same.

If I buy a HDTV monitor I will get HDTV if I have digital HD cable or satellite ....

However to get HDTV OTA I will need a HDTV box...

m I correct????

I think you got it. Just be careful you don't pruchase old technology as it is changing very rapidly.

An HDTV monitor is similar to a computer monitor in that it does nothing without a source signal. A computer requires a graphics card to provide a signal. There are HDTV tuners designed to provide a signal to an HDTV monitor. Most likely the HDTV ready TV has a built-in standard OTA tuner but not a HD tuner. A monitor only has no tuner of any type.

If you will post the model numbers of the components you are interested in, I would be happy to comment.

BTW, I design and install media systems for a living. I got to see the lastest components at the custom installers trade show last week.

[ramirami]

Originally posted by bcclements


If you will post the model numbers of the components you are interested in, I would be happy to comment.

BTW, I design and install media systems for a living. I got to see the lastest components at the custom installers trade show last week.

I am basically looking at something < $2000. In that price I think I will get a 51inch Rear Projection HD Monitor TV. Not decided on which one to buy, and where to buy it from....

suggestions are welcome.

[davedela]

I did tons of research and finally went with a 53" Pioneer widescreen TV. Its strengths are:

>The best upconversion of standard (non HDTV) signals

>Lots of tweakability (such as 72pt convergence for every mode)

>My last Pioneer rear projetion TV lasted over 13 years

>Plenty bright & good color (unlike the Mitsubishi HDTVs I looked at)

>It just felt right... (Saw no negative reviews on net)

>Price was right... ~$1950 + a ~$150 Five year extended warranty


Here's a link to the Pioneer page:
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pe..._34769,00.html

[GlenH]

Originally posted by ramirami


great info....
tell me if my understanding is correct...

HDTV moniter and HDTV ready are the same.

If I buy a HDTV monitor I will get HDTV if I have digital HD cable or satellite ....

However to get HDTV OTA I will need a HDTV box...

m I correct????

There are "HD ready" TVs which are basically TVs that can only display an HD resolution, ie. 1080i and/or 720p. However, a true "HDTV" has a built in HD tuner (can receive HD signals, decode them and display them). This is analogous to a computer monitor and a TV set. On a TV set, you have a built in tuner allowing you to receive OTA stations whereas a computer monitor has no built in tuner and you would need to hook up an external tuner in order for the computer monitor to display any TV channels.

The vast majority of HD monitors (say 95% of them or more) are HD ready sets, ie. has a standard defintion tuner, but does not have a high defintion tuner built in and requires an external receiver/tuner in order for you to receive high defintion signals.

If you have satellite, such as DirecTV, all you need is the TV itself, plus a DirecTV high definiton receiver. With this, you can get both DirecTV HD channels, plus OTA (over the air) free HD channels (CBS, NBC, ABC, WB, PBS, etc.). Every DirecTV HD receiver has the capability to also tune in OTA HD channels. They're pretty cool. Some receivers integrate DirecTV, OTA, and cable signals into 1 single menu. You can seamlessly surf through all 3 sources together.

If you have cable, and HD is available in your area, the cable companies will supply you with an HD capable cable box for about $5/mo extra. I'm not positive on this, but I believe these HD cable boxes can also receive OTA high defintion stations.

So, to reiterate, it is likely you will NOT need a separate HD OTA box to get OTA HD signals as every DirecTV HD receiver has a built in OTA HD receiver as well. I'm not positive about cable HD receiver boxes, but I believe it is the same as well.

Of course, if your cable company does not provide HD service and you do not want to get satellite, then your only option would be OTA HD and they sell OTA HD only tuners for about $300 or so.

VERY IMPORTANT - when buying an HD monitor, make sure that it has either DVI/HDCP or HDMI input connections. DVI alone is no good. You need DVI with HDCP or HDMI which is basically DVI/HDCP with additional built in inputs for sound. These are copy protected connections which are now pretty much standard and accepted by all the major broadcasters, cable & satellite companies, content providers, and TV manufacturers. In the future, if you do not have DVI/HDCP or HDMI connections to your TV, you may not be able to receive copy protected high defintion content such as pay-per view HD events, movies, etc. If you have an HD monitor with the older component connections only, instead of a high defintion feed, your monitor may only be able to display the downrezzed image. The HD image would be either 1920x1080i or 1280x720p. The downrezzed image would be DVD quality or lower 720x480p.

Glen

[GlenH]

ramirami,

davedela's Pioneer SD 533 TV is pretty good. Pioneer makes excellent rear projection TVs and good plasmas. However, the SD533 is an older model that does not have DVI/HDCP inputs. I believe Pioneer may have announced a replacement set recently at the CEDIA show.

If you can answer these questions, I would be able to point you towards some TVs you can check out:

1. What is your primary viewing sources, ie. what do you normally watch? DVDs? regular OTA TV? Satellite or cable? If cable, is it digital cable? Do you play video games alot? X-box or Playstation2 or Gamecube? Do you have any interest in using your TV as a multimedia center, ie. hook up your computer up to the TV so that you can surf the net, play MPEGS, DivX movies, picture slideshows, play computer games, do TIVO like recordings, etc.?

2. How is the lighting in the room? Do you have lots of windows where during the daytime, it is very bright? Do you even watch TV during the daytime or do you usually only watch at night? When you watch TV, do you prefer to leave the lights on or off or dimmed? The most common HDTVs are rear projection TVs which may not be ideal if you have a living room with lots of windows as it may wash the picture out.

3. What size TV do you want? How far away are you going to sit from the TV?

4. Is off axis viewing angles important, ie. do you have couches arranged along the side where you are watching the TV at an angle? Most rear projection TVs and not that good for off axis viewing.

5. Do you have a preference for a certain type of TV? Do you find that you like the traditional tube based TVs best or have you owned a rear projection TV and like the look of these types of TVs?

6. Does size of the TV matter? Are you interested in the thinner TVs such as plasmas or LCD panels?

7. Do you have an interest in recording HD shows? If so, you should consider a TV with Firewire connections as it is possible to record HD shows via Firewire but not via DVI/HDCP or HDMI connections.

Glen

[bcclements]

Glen,

You obviously know the subject well. Do you sell and/or install? Did you get a chance to attend the Cedia show in Indy?

The Samsung DLP rear projection monitors were very impressive and probably the best value.


ramirami,

Glen seems ready to help you with your selection. His point is that you don't just go out and buy a big screen TV without first determining what is most important in fullfilling your needs.

If a price < $2,000. is most important be aware that may not be happy with your decision in a few years. This is similar to buying an obsolete computer before you even get it home.

I would personally look at a unit closer to $4,000 for long term value and make sure it has the inputs that Glen described in his previous post.

[pbaylog]

Good off-topic discussion and very timely as I've also been considering moving up to HDTV as the family xmas gift. Imagine that, a new Pilot and HDTV in one year - how spoliled. Forgive me for glomming onto the thread, but this is a snapshot of my situation - any feedbcak would be appreciated:

* Primary viewing source is Direct TV
* I would be using a basement location with plenty of overhead lighting, but limited window light.
* I Primarily view Direct TV, but the kids are often viewing dvd's, videos, and playing P2.

I've just begun looking, and I've been leaning towards the Samsung DLP because of its picture quality and relative value.

A couple of questions I have:

* Is that DLP technology something that's bound to last? Is it a good alternative to the plasma tech? has it been reliable?
* Was the guy at Best Buy right when he said the Direct TV HD tuner would be $599.00?
* What would be a decent home theater system to surraound this? It was recommended against a box package. The room is roughly 15' x 30'

Finally, what do you think the best Chicago location to purchase?

Thanks in advance guys.

[bcclements]

Originally posted by pbaylog
Good off-topic discussion and very timely as I've also been considering moving up to HDTV as the family xmas gift. Imagine that, a new Pilot and HDTV in one year - how spoliled. Forgive me for glomming onto the thread, but this is a snapshot of my situation - any feedbcak would be appreciated:

* Primary viewing source is Direct TV
* I would be using a basement location with plenty of overhead lighting, but limited window light.
* I Primarily view Direct TV, but the kids are often viewing dvd's, videos, and playing P2.

I've just begun looking, and I've been leaning towards the Samsung DLP because of its picture quality and relative value.

A couple of questions I have:

* Is that DLP technology something that's bound to last? Is it a good alternative to the plasma tech? has it been reliable?
* Was the guy at Best Buy right when he said the Direct TV HD tuner would be $599.00?
* What would be a decent home theater system to surraound this? It was recommended against a box package. The room is roughly 15' x 30'

Finally, what do you think the best Chicago location to purchase?

Thanks in advance guys.

Budget and your understanding of how the components interconnect should determine your purchasing path.

I have found great audio brings an average quality picture to life whereas a great picture and poor audio does not satisfy.

You may want to get the help of a Cedia Professional if you don't think you have the knowledge or expertise to do your own theater.

Best Buy is a great resource if know what you want and how to put it together. You can fish around at Tweeter if you are looking for expertise. Be aware of salesman selling hardware components verses a complete solution. Some places equate a custom installation to delivery and setup in your home without any consideration of a proper design.

There is a whole industry based upon custom A/V installations and they normally don't give away their knowledge. (You get what you pay for.) Interview two or three companies as you would a general contractor for building a room addition.

Cedia

[GlenH]

Originally posted by bcclements
Glen,

You obviously know the subject well. Do you sell and/or install? Did you get a chance to attend the Cedia show in Indy?

The Samsung DLP rear projection monitors were very impressive and probably the best value.

No. It's just a hobby. Although I do pretty much install stuff myself. Have never attended Cedia or CES. I'd really like to go to CES one of these years.

Samsung DLP sets may be good depending on what one's priorities are. They have excellent brightness, no burn-in risk and thus are great for gaming or computer use, have native 720p. However, as with any other TV available today, there are issues that may make them less suitable for others. For instance, because they are single chip sets (1 single chip rather than 3 RGB chips), they utilize a color wheel to generate the 3 RGB colors necessary. The spinning color wheels in these sets sometimes cause a noticeable rainbow effect and/or fatigue for some users. For other users, they never notice these things. They also do not have black levels that are as good as traditional CRT sets. This may or may not bother some people.

There is no perfect TV available yet. That's why it is important to define one's criteria and needs before buying such an expensive item.

Glen