Ford's "Pilot Fighter"

[osteome]

Looks like Ford will be entering the fray later this summer with the "Ford Freestyle", available in SE, SEL or Limited models. This will be a front or AWD, three row (six or seven passengers with the choice being in 2nd row bench or captain's chairs), V6 powered (200hp 3.0L) crossover vehicle based on the Volvo S60/S80 platform. They already have information on the coprorate site and showed an example at the Detroit Auto Show. It appears that it is essentially more minivan than SUV (or even true crossover) in its roots. It does have a host of safety features (including a rollover detection system with safety canopy SRS)

Not sure what to make of this until more is available, but I think that the Pilot sales will not be eroded (200HP???? ). The pictures tend to look like a mix between the Freestar and the Explorer....they may have went with the "Free-" rather that the "Ex-" way of naming things to give the nod to the minivan genes. It still looks better than the similar GM vehciles (Saturn, Buick, Chevy CUVs) that have gotten the attention of the board lately...but beating GM as styling is not too tough to do. Perhaps there will be no Freestar AWD with this thing taking that slot?

I think that we will stick with the Pilot for a good long while....and we only turned 7K this weekend.

Let the discussion / barbs begin......

[osteome]

I hope that this does not come out too large.....

[joesimpala]

In my opinion the Freestyle is shaped much like the Cadillac SRX. If this is the case it will look more like a large station wagon than SUV. Like the SRK or the Pacifica that is definately not a very "rugged" look that many people look for in SUV's.

[joesimpala]

Heres another pic of the Ford.

[tracy]

Originally posted by joesimpala
Like the SRK or the Pacifica that is definately not a very "rugged" look that many people look for in SUV's.

Many SUV owners say we buy SUVs for the functionality, not the appearance (present company included). I think SUVans like this will show if that's really true or not. Personally, I wouldn't touch this one with a 10 foot pole, because it's a Ford. But if Honda came out with a less rugged version of the Pilot (yeah, I know ) that was comparably priced and had more/better features, I'd have to take a look. Of course, Ford needs this vehicle because its SUVs ride like the trucks they were based on.

[rockman19762001]

It's a Ford, owned a Ford Taurus wagon before that my own father sold me when he worked for a Ford dealer. The V-6 engine went out every 22,000 miles like clock work. Engineering design flaw (head gasket material was too thin) that would cost about 3500.00 dollars to fix (Ford picked up half the cost to repair). At 66,000 when it was going out again I bought a Honda Accord Wagon. Gave that Accord to my daughter and son-in-law, trouble free up to 145,000 miles when they traded it for a Dodge Durango.

My Ford Taurus and Winstar both had nagging electrical problems. They both loved to quit running in small rural towns in West Texas, got to meet several nice tow men on the 2.5 hour trip back to Midland.

[pjb3]

Originally posted by tracy
Of course, Ford needs this vehicle because its SUVs ride like the trucks they were based on.

Most Ford SUV's have an independent rear suspension and the couple that I have been in ride about the same as the Pilot.

[tracy]

Originally posted by pjb3
Most Ford SUV's have an independent rear suspension and the couple that I have been in ride about the same as the Pilot.

Well, I must admit I try not to spend a lot of time riding in Fords, so my sample was pretty limited!

[ramirami]

Originally posted by tracy
Well, I must admit I try not to spend a lot of time riding in Fords,

I owend a Mustang SVT Cobra few years ago...what a sweet machine so I cannot say anything bad about ford...

if I can afford it I want to get the new Mustang

[pjb3]

Originally posted by tracy
Well, I must admit I try not to spend a lot of time riding in Fords, so my sample was pretty limited!

I'm curious, do you have any basis for your bias?

[osteome]

Granted I have only owned one Ford..... an Escort in high school. By the time it hit 60,000 miles it had been through one clutch, burned about one quart of oil per fill up, rattled / buzzed / droned at any speed, and depreciated faster than any vehicle I have owned since. It was replaced by a used Acura Integra that was essentially flawless over 144,000 miles when I sold it for $3500 and moved onto a used Maxima that I sold at 125,000 with the exhaust manifold amounting to the only major repair, it being replaced by a Jeep that was traded at 17,000 miles after 3 recalls, to take over my wife's Camry which we replaced at 178,000 miles with my current commuting vehicle; she leased a new Camry at that time that was replaced by her Pilot.

Based upon the above experiences alone I would not seriously consider a Ford (or a Chrysler or a GM) unless there were some considerable changes made to bolster reliability, quality of materials and resale value.

This new vehicle from Ford will probably due very well and perhaps even spawn the somewhat inevitable Mercury, Lincoln, and perhaps Mazda or Jaquar equivalent. (after all SAAB is still rumored to be getting a Chevy TrailBlazer version at some point). There are a lot of Ford faithful (Chrysler and GM for that matter as well) that will love this thing and it looks like Ford is really getting close to the balance that most seek in a "CUV" (best of the minivan and SUV).

For me though, based upon the info above my "faith" runs mostly in Toyota and Honda circles. But unlike others, my faith is based upon different "beliefs". Unlike the Big Three (well actually Toyota has squeezed in there based on sales...so lets just say the domestics), I cannot brag about how "my company's cars" did at NASCAR over the weekend, but I can brag about the fact that my vehicle will probably have very few problems and probably enjoy fantastic resale value. I cannot brag about the storied history of my cars based on their ancestors in the 50s and 60s (with some of the current line up still sharing parts from the same bins), but I can note the fact that I did not purchase a vehicle that will wind up in a government or rental car fleet.

Sure I could pay less for a similar vehicle, especially after it has been incentivized to the hilt to get it off the lot...but there are reasons that I could have paid less....(or maybe Honda is somehow doing a great job selling to every "idiot / sucker" it can find that is willing to pay a premium and wait for a vehicle?) and reasons why these same vehicles will be worth less in the future.

We all love our favorite brand(s) of vehicles for a variety of reasons. Personally, do I get excited about about what I drive? Sure....just mostly for mundane reasons (resale, reliability, efficiency, functionality, etc.) rather than the less palpable (race heritage, "cutting edge" styling, or raw power, etc.)

[jay]

Originally posted by osteome
...snip

(well actually Toyota has squeezed in there based on sales...so lets just say the domestics), I cannot brag about how "my company's cars" did at NASCAR over the weekend, but I can brag about the fact that my vehicle will probably have very few problems and probably enjoy fantastic resale value.

...snip

Toyota will soon debut in the NASCAR Truck series, and the Nextel Cup can't be far off. I can't agree more with your comparisons with Ford/GM/Chrysler versus Honda/Toyota. My experience has been very similar.

[tracy]

Originally posted by pjb3
I'm curious, do you have any basis for your bias?

My personal experience and that of friends and family members. I know there are good, dependable Fords out there. I just personally don't know anyone who owns one of them.

[Larryl]

Quote "well actually Toyota has squeezed in there based on sales"

Your comments about relative value based on the manufacturer are well taken, but you should understand that Toyota did not just squeeze in. They are doing a bit better than most realize.

1. For 2003 Toyota mande an annual profit of just over $8 billion That's more than the combined profits of GM, Ford, Daimler/Chrysler.

2. Toyota's stock value has been going up about 22-24% a year while all the other players are taking a dive. The value of their stock multiplied by shares issued is $105 billion, again, higher the the combined totals of all players selling cars in the US.

3. Toyota has 15 of its models on CU's most relliable list of 38. Some major players have none, like GM.

4. Of 1.8 million vehicles sold in 2003, 1.2 million were made in the US. Soon their domestic content will exceed GM, Ford and Chrysler. While others are moving manufacturing out of the US, Toyota is moving in. Their are building plants while the old traditional big three are closing them.

5. Toyota moved into the big luxury car market in 1989 and for the past three years have old sold BMW, Mercedes and Cadillac, combined.

6. In one year they produced a new model minivan to compete with the market leader, Odyssey, and now it's finally a fair fight for the maket lead.

So, although Toyota just sneaked into second place, they did it making 8 times the industry profit margin, while increasing domestic content and producing a good product. The only other manufacturer with a consumer perceived quality standing is Honda, but Honda has a bit of growing, yet to come....and it will.

[osteome]

I actually could not agree with you more.... Toyota's growth has been oustanding. I "hedged" my comments a little bit in my reference to Toyota for anyone lurking out there with any animosity to Toyota or imports in general. Our Pilot was the first vehicle out of the last four that was not a Toyota, and if the Highlander was a little bit bigger and had a third row at that time, I would have gone with that (plus, my brother-in-law works for a Toyota dealer, so it would have been close in price, despite the higher MSRP for a loaded Highlander). No regrets on the Pilot though, or in regards to the Toyota that shares the driveway with it and serves as the commuter mobile. We are contemplating a Maxima (sporty) in the near future or a used Outback (AWD) when the family grows to repalce the Toyota....but there could always be room for an Accord or Camry.

You can judge by the ownership history of my wife and I to see where our loyalties lie:

Her:

' 89 Nissan Sentra (122K)
' 95 Toyota Corrolla (34K: lease)
' 93 Toyota Camry (passed to me, 177K at replacement)
' 00 Toyata Camry II (34K: lease)
' 03 Honda Pilot (7K and loving it)

Me:

' 87 Dodge Daytona (garbage, totaled by dealer at 16K)
' 87 Ford Escort (garbage, totaled by redlight runner at 66K)
' 89 Acura Integra (sold at 144K)
' 91 Nissan Maxima (sold at 122K...give or take on exact miles)
' 98 Jeep Wrangler (traded at 17K...wife's second Camry)
' 93 Camry (see above)
' 95 Corolla Wagon (faithfully excecutes a 104 mile commute 5-6 times a week)