New SUV Short List

[kullenberg]

I have to replace my ML430 next spring (oh happy day!). I have narrowed my short list down to two possibilities: a Subaru Forester XT, and a Honda Pilot EX. Here in the mtns of NC, the choice of new car dealers is somewhat limited, however we have both a Honda dealer and a Subaru dealer, and both have pretty good reputations. I can get the Subaru at invoice thru the VIP pricing program. The Pilot, I guess I have to exercise my bargaining skills. I have had two previous Honda's, one of which was a first generation Odyssey, which was a great vehicle for the purpose for which it was designed. Having said all that, I guess my principle concerns about the Pilot are price ( getting it as close to invoice as I can), performance at altitude, and in the snow, Any insights on these and other subjects are welcome (convince me!!) The Subaru is explored elsewhere, although I must say I'm impressed by Subaru of America's active participation in another forum. They actually dive in and help to solve problems with dealers. The problems I have seen with the Pilot seem to be resolving, although American Honda has exhibited more of a "hands off" attitude than I am comfortable with.

[robrecht]

With respect to price, a good first step in bargaining is to join Costco ($45), find their nearest participating dealer, get their price (MSRP - $1K), and see if your local dealer will beat it. Good luck!

[PILOTinginCO]

I live in Colorado and am routinely at an elevation of 6,000 to 10,000 feet in altitude and I'm extremely impressed with how my PILOT handles it. I would say my PILOT does as well as my old Expedition with a V8 handled the mountains.

As for snow handling, we had nearly 5-feet of snow last March here in Colorado and as some know, snow in March is wet, it's heavy and a real pain in the a$$ to move around. My PILOT handled the roads like a true champion. With that said, when you have 5-feet of heavy wet snow in front of you - NOTHING MOVES!!!

My neighbors have full size trucks and a Tahoe, and they were stranded in their garages just as I was. But if you're dealing with a couple of feet of snow - take it on - have a good time - 'cuz your PILOT will have you flying thru your troubles. The VTM-4 system is extremely well designed and works flawlessly.

As for getting price knocked off the MSRP - I think those problems of paying "sticker" or above are gone, now that the PILOT has been on the road for more than a year now.

Subaru builds a good car - I just think for the money - Honda is a better way to go!

[5speeder]

That XT is turbo right? It should have less performance decrease due to the higher altitude. And it's available with the stick shift!

Although to be honest, I live in NJ so I don't know how much worse the Pilot perform on higher altitude.

[Qbrozen]

You really shouldn't expect to see this on a Pilot forum, but here goes .... I vote for the XT. Now, realize that this goes along with a couple of caveats. If you have decided that the Subarus lacking features and room is not of consequence, then it is the clear winner based on price and performance. Personally, I couldn't get it because we traded in a Forester ('98 L) on our Pilot due to its lack of space and lack of comfort. I could NOT drive that car for long periods of time and I even despised it for more than a half hour at a time. BUT, I loved its handling, gas mileage, and price. The Pilot is a completely different beast. Its massive in comparison and tremendously expensive in comparison. My wife wanted 3 rows with leather and I wanted a power seat and 20 mpg minimum. Based on those needs and wants, the Pilot was the only real choice.

If the Forester meets your needs, then you have no reason to step up to the Pilot. Save the money difference and get an incredibly quick and nimble SUV in the process.

[kullenberg]

Originally posted by Qbrozen
You really shouldn't expect to see this on a Pilot forum, but here goes .... I vote for the XT. Now, realize that this goes along with a couple of caveats. If you have decided that the Subarus lacking features and room is not of consequence, then it is the clear winner based on price and performance. Personally, I couldn't get it because we traded in a Forester ('98 L) on our Pilot due to its lack of space and lack of comfort. I could NOT drive that car for long periods of time and I even despised it for more than a half hour at a time. BUT, I loved its handling, gas mileage, and price. The Pilot is a completely different beast. Its massive in comparison and tremendously expensive in comparison. My wife wanted 3 rows with leather and I wanted a power seat and 20 mpg minimum. Based on those needs and wants, the Pilot was the only real choice.

If the Forester meets your needs, then you have no reason to step up to the Pilot. Save the money difference and get an incredibly quick and nimble SUV in the process.

Interestingly enough, what boiled me down to these two choice was, in part the ease of entry. The Forester is far easier to get into and out of than the rest of the Subaru line. As for gas mileage, it's probably a wash between to two due to the turbo motor, and when you factor in the cost of premium fuel, required for the XT, it's another plus for the Pilot. There is not a huge price diference if I forego the leather in the Honda, which I'm inclined to do, as it doesn't appear that Honda has stepped up to the plate yet on the sagging issue. On the space issue; the Forester has a surprising amount of space, more measured leg room in front than the Pilot, however the Pilot's actual seating position is better, and of course for the rest of the vehicle there's no contest. Features; the Forester has a in dash 6 CD changer, weather band radio, which the Pilot doesn't, however the Pilot has c/c and stereo controls on the wheel. The Forester tends to transmit a lot of road noise, at hiway speed (as do most Subarus), however I've seen on the other forum that the Pilot does also.

5speeder asked if the XT is a turbo, and it is. This is a definite advantage at highr altitudes, but the Pilot seems to do ok, as well.
Thanks for the responses so far.

[tracy]

So, which one makes your heart go pitter patter?

[colorider]

Originally posted by kullenberg

Interestingly enough, what boiled me down to these two choice was, in part the ease of entry. The Forester is far easier to get into and out of than the rest of the Subaru line. As for gas mileage, it's probably a wash between to two due to the turbo motor, and when you factor in the cost of premium fuel, required for the XT, it's another plus for the Pilot. There is not a huge price diference if I forego the leather in the Honda, which I'm inclined to do, as it doesn't appear that Honda has stepped up to the plate yet on the sagging issue. On the space issue; the Forester has a surprising amount of space, more measured leg room in front than the Pilot, however the Pilot's actual seating position is better, and of course for the rest of the vehicle there's no contest. Features; the Forester has a in dash 6 CD changer, weather band radio, which the Pilot doesn't, however the Pilot has c/c and stereo controls on the wheel. The Forester tends to transmit a lot of road noise, at hiway speed (as do most Subarus), however I've seen on the other forum that the Pilot does also.

5speeder asked if the XT is a turbo, and it is. This is a definite advantage at highr altitudes, but the Pilot seems to do ok, as well.
Thanks for the responses so far.

I hope no one kicks me off this forum - but here's my .02.

If you don't require the SIZE of the Pilot and the potential pulling capability - go for the Subaru. I hadn't realized till just now that the XT Forester was a turbo. Having owned two Subaru Turbo's with a combined mileage of somewhere close to 280K miles and virtually $0 repairs, I feel they are a GREAT vehicle. My ownership was when I lived in the higher mountains of Colorado (8700') and commuted 85 miles RT daily into Colorado Springs. Never missed a beat and never failed to get me to work and back home every night.

YMMV

edited Actually, I'm going to go out on a limb here and also say that (IMHO), the Subaru AWD system is superior to the Honda VTM-4 system.

[kullenberg]

Have you kept the orig equip tires, or did you upgrade? With either vehicle I plan to change to a set of Nokian WR's. (a mud and snow rated tires that also carries a winter rating)

[colorider]

Originally posted by kullenberg
Have you kept the orig equip tires, or did you upgrade? With either vehicle I plan to change to a set of Nokian WR's. (a mud and snow rated tires that also carries a winter rating)

I have only had one partial winter with the Pilot, but found the OEM GY tires fine. Others have been less pleased with them.

During my Subaru ownership years, I ran a lot of Big O tires - usually the "Legacy" model. Never had a problem with them.

YMMV

[kemosabe]

Originally posted by kullenberg
Have you kept the orig equip tires, or did you upgrade? With either vehicle I plan to change to a set of Nokian WR's. (a mud and snow rated tires that also carries a winter rating)

kullenberg: Within a week of taking ownership of my Pilot, I switched out my Goodyear Integrity tires for the same size Michelin Cross Terrains -- I've been very happy with the decision.

[kullenberg]

I have a set of X-terrains on the ML, and have been very happy with them. Reports are that the Nokians are even better in the snow (made in Finland - they know about snow!)