The Pros and Cons of the Pilot

[florida_guy]

This is a response to a message sent to me in the "Ignition Problems" thread...
http://www.piloteers.org/forums/show...9432#post39432

Since it had the potential to cause serious thread drift in an already huge thread I decided it was best to start a new thread.

Originally posted by 74PILOTMOM

Are you leaning one way or another? Is the race between Highlander and Pilot? Any other contenders?

Well, you opened a Pandora's box. This represents a compilation of all the research I've done so far.

For a while I was considering either an Accord, a Camry, or a VW Passat but I think I've decided that I want an SUV for three main reasons
1) cargo area and flexibility
2) high driving position
3) high ground clearance

However, I don't want a rough ride or too much tendency to tip, which pretty much leaves me with a "CUV" Crossover Utility Vehicle.

A CRV is too small but anything bigger than the Pilot would be overkill for me and I want somewhat decent gas mileage.

So that was a long winded way of say "Yes" the race is between the Highlander and the Pilot and "No" there are no other contenders.

As I type this message [subject to change at the slightest whim ] I am thinking of holding off until the 2004 Pilots come out for one main reason. I read over on our sister forum acuramdx.com about how great the new Nav system is for the 2003 MDX

http://www.acuramdx.org/forums/showt...932#post122932
among others. Particularly good are the ones by vicpai!

And I read here a message from someone who said she called Honda in December and was told that the Pilot is going to get the upgraded Acura Nav System for 2004.

Along with that, however, I have to hope that they offer the Nav System without requiring leather because I wouldn't want leather if it cost the same as cloth and I sure don't want to pay the premium price for it.

I guess I should ask if my reasons for not liking leather are valid?
1) Sticky in hot weather (plenty of that in Florida)
2) Cold in cold weather (cold is redefined after living in Florida a while)
3) Not as comfy cushy as cloth
4) How does leather respond to being sat on with a wet (salt water) swimming suit?

Off the top of my head here are the main decision points between the Highlander and the Pilot

Highlander
-------------
a) better build quality, less bugs
b) more nimble in congested traffic (plenty of that down here)
c) narrower which means I can slide into skinnier parking spaces, I can squeeze through traffic better, and I will sweat less in two way traffic on narrow mountain roads
d) front seat folds back completely flush and flat making a good sleeping place (significant because when on weekend trips I will sleep in the car so I have more time to enjoy nature and can do it more often because it doesn't cost much)
e) can get for close to invoice through arrangement with Credit Union
f) less likely to have to wait for options I want (not a biggie though because I can wait as long as my Accord doesn't blow up on me unexpectedly)
g) better fuel economy or at least potential for it especially if I go with the 2WD version

Pilot
-----
a) More cargo space
b) More ground clearance
c) wider - so less tippy
d) overall I'm more confident in it when driving on dirt and sand roads
e) review says that stereo has more "sonic accuracy" which is important to me
f) comes with Nav (maybe)
g) forces me to get AWD which I want but don't really need
h) have a good relationship with a non-dealer Honda mechanic
i) THIS FORUM - nothing like it for Highlander

I may modify this message a few times as I think of other stuff but thanks for asking the question. You made me put this stuff down on paper in an organized fashion. That will help me decide and help all of you fine folks set me straight if I'm off base about anything.

[Eddie Joe]

Thats a good lineup of issues. Drive them a bunch of times, and just decide. You can't go wrong with either one, IMHO. For me, it was the Honda, but the Highlander is a worthy alternative, esp. for those who don't need the extra seating or size or towing capacity.

I did (except for the seating - they will almost never be used).

EJ

[florida_guy]

Originally posted by Eddie Joe
Thats a good lineup of issues. Drive them a bunch of times, and just decide. You can't go wrong with either one, IMHO. For me, it was the Honda, but the Highlander is a worthy alternative, esp. for those who don't need the extra seating or size or towing capacity.

I did (except for the seating - they will almost never be used).

EJ

I don't expect to ever use the 3rd seat in my pilot. There will always be stuff stored back there unless I know in advance that I will need to transport more than 5 people.

The hardest part of this decision is not knowing what Honda has in store of the 2004 Pilot. Changes. Prices. etc.

[hop23]

Originally posted by florida_guy

The hardest part of this decision is not knowing what Honda has in store of the 2004 Pilot. Changes. Prices. etc.

I wouldn't expect significant changes in '04. You might see things like body-colored door handles, but a NAV upgrade is probably as big a thing as you'll see. Honda, like many other auto makers, tends to make small, incremental changes between major overhauls.

[vellinga]

florida_guy

Reading between the lines of your initial message in this thread.

I read over on our sister forum acuramdx.com about how great the new Nav system is for the 2003 MDX

If you are already into this community far enough to refer to it as our, then methinks that it only a matter of time that you'll get a Pilot (2003 or 2004). Plus, how many mountain roads are there in Florida. Go for the extra width, and space.

Just my 2 cents, if that makes sense.

[Sage]

Don't worry about the leather seats down here. I wouldn't have cloth again if THEY paid ME to put them in. The leather doesn't act like the sticky vinyl I think you're thinking of. I never stick to 'em and they don't sweat. As far as the swinsuit issue... I put a towel down as you would for the cloth. The good thing about the leather is that it doesn't stay "damp" like the cloth will - even with the towel - and eventually that lovely mildew we have in abundance will set in. I really recommend the leather. You'll be amazed. Test both, the leather without the air on in the summer months. And clean-up is a breeze!

[florida_guy]

Originally posted by hop23

I wouldn't expect significant changes in '04. You might see things like body-colored door handles, but a NAV upgrade is probably as big a thing as you'll see. Honda, like many other auto makers, tends to make small, incremental changes between major overhauls.

That is my expectation. The big ones that I'm looking for are...
1) Nav upgrade
2) Ability to get Nav without leather
3) Fix to "problems" starting, door scrunch, etc. etc.

Of course by waiting there is always the risk of a significant $$$ increase in price too.

[florida_guy]

Originally posted by vellinga
florida_guy
Reading between the lines of your initial message in this thread

If you are already into this community far enough to refer to it as our, then methinks that it only a matter of time that you'll get a Pilot (2003 or 2004). Plus, how many mountain roads are there in Florida. Go for the extra width, and space.

Just my 2 cents, if that makes sense.

Hee, hee, hee... you are very perceptive vellinga

I am trying to keep an open mind about this. The build quality problems are a significant concern.

There aren't mountain roads in Florida but I plan to use my Pilot to take trips to the mountains. The Great Smokies for sure and possibly even the Rockies. There are other narrow roads though including one that I take to work every day.

[florida_guy]

Originally posted by Sage
Don't worry about the leather seats down here. I wouldn't have cloth again if THEY paid ME to put them in. The leather doesn't act like the sticky vinyl I think you're thinking of. I never stick to 'em and they don't sweat. As far as the swinsuit issue... I put a towel down as you would for the cloth. The good thing about the leather is that it doesn't stay "damp" like the cloth will - even with the towel - and eventually that lovely mildew we have in abundance will set in. I really recommend the leather. You'll be amazed. Test both, the leather without the air on in the summer months. And clean-up is a breeze!

What is it about leather that you like so much better besides not staying damp and easy cleanup... just the look?... I mean I can't see them being more comfortable than cloth. Seems they would be easier to cut too?

[ramirami]

Originally posted by florida_guy


3) Fix to "problems" starting, door scrunch, etc. etc.

Of course by waiting there is always the risk of a significant $$$ increase in price too.

Some of the problems are already fixed IMHO. I dont thing the newer PILOTs have the scrunch. Mine does'nt . I dont thing anyone after VIN # 60000 and higher have this ???

[Ziploc]

Originally posted by florida_guy




Off the top of my head here are the main decision points between the Highlander and the Pilot

Highlander
-------------
a) better build quality, less bugs
b) more nimble in congested traffic (plenty of that down here)
c) narrower which means I can slide into skinnier parking spaces, I can squeeze through traffic better, and I will sweat less in two way traffic on narrow mountain roads
d) front seat folds back completely flush and flat making a good sleeping place (significant because when on weekend trips I will sleep in the car so I have more time to enjoy nature and can do it more often because it doesn't cost much)
e) can get for close to invoice through arrangement with Credit Union
f) less likely to have to wait for options I want (not a biggie though because I can wait as long as my Accord doesn't blow up on me unexpectedly)
g) better fuel economy or at least potential for it especially if I go with the 2WD version

Pilot
-----
a) More cargo space
b) More ground clearance
c) wider - so less tippy
d) overall I'm more confident in it when driving on dirt and sand roads
e) review says that stereo has more "sonic accuracy" which is important to me
f) comes with Nav (maybe)
g) forces me to get AWD which I want but don't really need
h) have a good relationship with a non-dealer Honda mechanic
i) THIS FORUM - nothing like it for Highlander

I may modify this message a few times as I think of other stuff but thanks for asking the question. You made me put this stuff down on paper in an organized fashion. That will help me decide and help all of you fine folks set me straight if I'm off base about anything.

At first, I agonized between buying the Pilot and the Highlander Limited. I did all the research I could on both, and concluded I'd very likely be happy with either. So, I appreciate your quandary!

My husband depended on me to do the comparative research, and I tried very hard to keep an open mind. While he was predisposed to favor Honda, based on past experience, he was more than prepared to make a joint decision with me, based fiirst and foremost on facts with a little gut feeling thrown in, when faced with a tie.

For what it's worth, here's what made us settle on the Pilot:

1. Both of us liked the Pilot's center console, both for storage and for use as a comfortable armrest, between driver and passenger seats.

2. Preferred Pilot's console/tray between second-row seats over Highlander's skinny center armrests.

3. Preferred Pilot's AWD system.

4. Pilot's front seats just happened to fit our rears to a T, if I may be indelicate.

5. Both of us reacted the same: the Pilot didn't LOOK as big on the outside, nor DRIVE as big, as it really is. But, my husband especially appreciated the size of the interior, particularly headroom (he's a tall guy).

6. Very subjective here, but while the Highlander drove very well, when we drove the Pilot it just seemed to us to float down the road with the smoother, quieter drive. I suspect there are plenty of others who perceive the Highlander as having the better ride.

7. Definitely subjective: We preferred the looks of the Pilot.

8. From a practicality standpoint, we appreciated having the flexibility to easily set up a 3rd row of seats on occasion....while, most of the time, having them folded flat and out of the way. My husband loves the extra surface to haul plywood (flat) and other building materials.

Well, that's my 2 cents' worth. If the Pilot had not made an appearance when it did, we'd surely be happily driving a Highlander Limited now.

[Sage]

Originally posted by florida_guy


What is it about leather that you like so much better besides not staying damp and easy cleanup... just the look?... I mean I can't see them being more comfortable than cloth. Seems they would be easier to cut too?

Actually - I think the leather is more comfortable than the cloth. Easier to "scoot" to change postions or "slide" in to. Gees - I sound like I'm callin' a dang square-dance here. LOLOL

I've had leather in the last 3 vehicles... Never a damaged seat, etc.

May depend on how long you're gonna keep your (subliminal) Pilot.
The cloth does tear after time. Had a 88 Dodge Daytona - Loved that thing. Except for the worn & then torn cloth seats.

[colorider]

Originally posted by Sage


Actually - I think the leather is more comfortable than the cloth. Easier to "scoot" to change postions or "slide" in to. Gees - I sound like I'm callin' a dang square-dance here. LOLOL

I've had leather in the last 3 vehicles... Never a damaged seat, etc.

May depend on how long you're gonna keep your (subliminal) Pilot.
The cloth does tear after time. Had a 88 Dodge Daytona - Loved that thing. Except for the worn & then torn cloth seats.

I'll chime in here too on leather. The Pilot is my 5th vehicle with leather (3rd vehicle by choice - meaning I bought it new with leather). I much prefer leather - for the same reasons as stated above. I no longer have "little ones", but I know from experience, cloth can get stained/damaged all too easy.

rod

[florida_guy]

Originally posted by Ziploc

For what it's worth, here's what made us settle on the Pilot:
...

4. Pilot's front seats just happened to fit our rears to a T, if I may be indelicate.

Thanks very much for the comprehensive response!

And sometimes we must be indelicate to comunicate our thoughts effectively.

[florida_guy]

Originally posted by Sage


Actually - I think the leather is more comfortable than the cloth. Easier to "scoot" to change postions or "slide" in to. Gees - I sound like I'm callin' a dang square-dance here. LOLOL

I've had leather in the last 3 vehicles... Never a damaged seat, etc.

May depend on how long you're gonna keep your (subliminal) Pilot.
The cloth does tear after time. Had a 88 Dodge Daytona - Loved that thing. Except for the worn & then torn cloth seats.

Well, do se do... Guess I will have to test drive a leather seated car and pay attention to my comfort level. I'm glad to hear that leather doesn't cut easy.

Things are confusing enough and now apparently they come out with a new trim level for the Pilot... LX, EX, EX-L, and now subliminal.