2003 vs 2004 vs 2005 Pilot

[sjlee]

Originally Posted by Risasi

I'm also shopping in the 2003 - 2005 range. We were kind of hung up on finding one with a sunroof, and I'm looking for one with about 100k miles or less.

In my neck of the woods an 2004 or 2005 w/ sunroof is about $14000-$15000. I just happened upon a 2003 LX, so no sunroof. But it only had 91k miles and the dealer wants $9500 asking price. Assuming the transmission is good, does this sound like a deal. And should I be worried about anything else specific to a 2003 LX vs an '04/'05 EX-L? I don't understand why it's several grand cheaper...

Kelly's Blue Book lists a 2003 Pilot LX with 91K miles at $10,695 (retail) in my area.

Some differences that a 2004/05 EX-L will have over a 2003 LX...

1. Leather upholstery
2. Heated seats and side mirrors
3. Seat belt reminder system (added in 2004 to all models)
4. Alloy wheels
5. Auto-off headlamps
6. Power driver's seat
7. Keyless entry
8. Automatic climate control
9. Homelink
10. Steering wheel-mounted audio controls
11. Different engine (2005)
12. Tire pressure monitoring system (2005)
13. Stability control (2005)
14. Bigger gas tank (2005)
15. 6-disc CD changer

[rocky]

05 EXL has Sunroof

[sjlee]

Originally Posted by Risasi

He got it for $8100 or $8400, he couldn't remember. And he admitted flat out he's just looking to make $500-$1000 a vehicle. This means I can probably snag it for just under $9000. He's just some small town dealer.

He also said that some "V" light is coming on when engaging 4WD. This just started happening and he is taking it into his mechanic in the next day or so. I'm going to try to drive out there Tuesday and take a look at it. Hopefully he should have an answer from the mechanic. And I'll run the VIN in the meantime.


What do you guys think? For under $9k does this sound like a deal? Assuming this light isn't a big issue...

Aside from VCM on the 2005 EX-L would I be giving up anything else but perks (aka sunroof)?

There should not be any lights coming on when power is being sent to the rear wheels. If the light that the dealer is talking about is the "VTM-4" indicator, then that is an indicator of a malfunction with the 4WD system and should be taken in for repair.

Also, there was a recall related to the 2003 for the transmission. Make sure that has been done.

Personally, I'd steer clear of that vehicle if there's a problem with the VTM-4 system.

[rocky]

Sounds like he is hitting the VTM4 Lock button-ie the guy has no idea what he is dealing with.

However if someone threw in 90wt rather than VTM fluid, avoid it like the plague

[sjlee]

Originally Posted by sjlee

There should not be any lights coming on when power is being sent to the rear wheels. If the light that the dealer is talking about is the "VTM-4" indicator, then that is an indicator of a malfunction with the 4WD system and should be taken in for repair.

Also, there was a recall related to the 2003 for the transmission. Make sure that has been done.

Personally, I'd steer clear of that vehicle if there's a problem with the VTM-4 system.

Rocky brings up a good point.

On the Pilot, you do not need to do anything to engage 4WD. The system is automatic... it sends power to the rear wheels as needed. The VTM-4 button is used to lock it into 4WD (only locks it up to 18 mph), but you shouldn't do this unless you're stuck. When the VTM-4 lock is engaged, the VTM-4 light will be lit on the dashboard. The light should not come on any other time while you're driving.

If the dealer thinks that pressing the VTM-4 button engages the 4WD, then this could be what is happening.

[N_Jay]

The VTM light with the warning lights is ONLY for a problem.

The VTM lock light in on the VTM lock button.

[Risasi]

Wow, this is some really helpful info you guys posted. Thanks.

I'm not really sure what he's doing. He said the "light came on". Perhaps he thinks he engaging it, perhaps there actually is an error light coming on. I'll dig into this deeper tomorrow when I talk to him. He should have taken it to his maintenance guy and received a report by tomorrow morning.

I ran a carfax report on the VIN earlier this morning. Looks like two owners. The first one from 2003-2009, then 2009-2011. The vehicle has been in NY the entire time. And there was an accident report back in 2004. There was no police report attached, which indicates that damage was less than $1000.

Annual safety checks and emissions checks were performed like clockwork. The last indication that the A/C was checked was in 2007, 42000 miles ago. So that's a minor concern. Another minor concern is I find no record of the transmission recall being fixed, but carfax shows no outstanding recalls and every annual check at the dealer says "recommended maintenance performed".

So, that's about all the info I have right now. I'll post more tomorrow.

[fishingdan]

Just to add a little more regarding the VTM-4 operation (in order for you to check it out). In addition to the above, the VTM-4 4-wheel lock (ie pressing the VTM-4 button) can only be activated when the drive selector is in 1, 2 or R. As noted above, it will disengage when the vehicle exceeds 18mph. As noted above, no VTM-4 lights on the dash should be visible after the warning lights flash at startup.

The tranny recall for that period was an inspection followed by one of two actions. If the inspection showed transmission gear damage, the transmission was replaced. If not, a cooling oil line was added to route cooling oil up to the gear area. If this has not been performed on the vehicle, it can still be performed, I believe.

Also check for any front end clunks on a rough road. It is at the age when some of those types of rubber components are starting to go (ex: Stabilizer bar links).

I have 150k on my 2004. It is a great vehicle and I wish you well.

[Risasi]

Well, I talked to dealer again. His mechanic tried to run the codes. He got nothing. And he said the light no longer comes on. I'm guessing EGR, it's just going to take awhile for it to fully manifest.
Battery was dead too. I'm talking to him again tomorrow, so hopefully he'll know more.

I did find another 2003 EX, 88k miles, no accidents. $11500.

I'm going to try to check out both vehicles in person, and still keep an eye out for a 2004/2005 at a good price too.

Thanks for all the info you guys have given me. I appreciate it.

[rocky]

Lots out there. Take your time and you'll find the right one.

[Risasi]

Well, I finally pulled the trigger on that 2003 EX I found. I just couldn't rationalize going with the LX with more miles. The dealer selling it still has it in the shop.

So I put a downpayment on the EX for $10,400. 88,500 miles, it was a lease vehicle for the first half of it's life, then one other owner until now. Clean inside and out. A couple small superficial scratches here and there. The recall for the transmission has already been done. I still really wanted to find a 2004/2005 with sunroof and tow package, for a cargo carrier when camping in the mountain. But I wasn't willing to pay an extra $4k everyone was asking around here...

I'm essentially at 89k, any advice on maintenance? I have a 3k mile trip planned for late June/early July. I'm going to try and get the dealer maintenance logs if I can. But assuming I can't get the logs and/or no maintenance has been performed I'm thinking a coolant and transmission fluid flush is probably in order? Although I did see in another thread someone recommended not flushing the coolant but rather only change it?

[N_Jay]

Coolant is 10 year, as long as it has not been contaminated. It will need to get done at 105K with the timing belt, so if it looks good, I would hold off.

Oil and Trans fluid are always good bets on a used car.

If the trans fluid is the least bit discolored I would have it changed 3X times (Honda version of a flush)
The Trans are the weak link in the pilot.

I would read up on the threads detailing the changing of the 3rd and 4th gear switches. IT is a easy, and might save the trans in the long run.

If you are going to tow at all, get the coolers (Trans and power steering).

If you are going to add a hitch read the threads on the proper way to clean out the mounting bolts.

[Risasi]

Alright, that helps.

The oil is being changed by the dealer. I'll look into changing the transmission fluid and this "3rd and 4th gear switch" of which you speak...just as a preventative measure.

Early June my dad and I will probably tear into it a bit just so I can familiarize myself with the vehicle. I might try to do the transmission fluid change myself - unless you would recommend against that.
I'll try to check the timing belt at the same time. Perhaps I'll plan on replacing it and the water pump sometime next year? Mainly because I don't have a real clear record of the work done on the vehicle.
I don't mind spending a little extra to do preventative work and play it safe. I figure it's cheaper than a major failure while on the road a thousand miles from home.

We average 6500-9000 miles a year on the main vehicle. I intend to get 7-10 good years out of this vehicle.

Again, thanks for your help. I do appreciate it.