Pilot vs MDX

[TheWorm]

Well, I figured I'd get things started since I figure a bunch of folks might be trying to understand the difference between the Pilot and its "big brother" the Acura MDX. I've shamelessly taken them from a great series of posts by wmquan over on acuramdx.org. Perhaps our generous host can help w/fixing the table formatting w/all the blanks @ the top. I can't figure that part out

[TheWorm]

	2003 Pilot EX-L	2002 MDX Base
Pricing (including destination)	$30,980	$35,200
Powertrain / Performance	2003 Pilot EX-L	2002 MDX Base
Horsepower	240@5400 rpm	240@5300 rpm
Torque	242 lbs-ft @ 4500rpm	245 lbs-ft @ 3000-5000rpm 95+ percent of peak torque @ 2000 to 5500 rpm
Mileage	17/22	17/23
Fuel Octane	Regular	Premium
Fuel Tank Capacity, gallons	19.2	19.2
Emissions	LEV/ULEV	ULEV
First Tune-Up, Miles	105,000	100,000
Transmission Shifter	Steering wheel mounted	Gated, console-mounted
Acceleration, 0-60mph (fastest observed time)	8.1 seconds (MT, C&D)	7.6 seconds (2001 model - MW)
Braking	70-0 205' (C&D)	60-0 132' (2001 model - MW)
Skidpad	0.73g (C&D)	0.74g (2001 model - C&D)
Suspension Tuning, Observed	"Somewhat softer ... more body roll" (C&D)
Exterior Features	2003 Pilot EX-L	2002 MDX Base
Styling	Sheetmetal unique to Pilot	Sheetmetal unique to MDX
Tires & Wheels	16" Goodyear Integrity's? P235/70 R16, alloy wheels	17" Goodyear Integrity's P235/65 R17, alloy wheels
Fog/Driving Lamps	Accessory	Standard, Integrated
Heated outside mirrors	N/A	Standard
Moonroof	N/A	Standard; Tilt-up
Roof Rails	Standard (crossbars are accessory)	Accessory (fixed rack)
Body Side Moldings	Standard	Accessory
Rear Spoiler	Standard ("Rear Roofline Spoiler")	Accessory ("Tailgate Deflector")
Front Mud Flaps	Accessory?	Standard
Available Color Combinations, Exterior/Interior	Black Pearl/Gray White/Fern Silver/Gray Redrock/Gray Evergreen/Saddle H avasu Blue/Gray Sandstone/Saddle (Aug) Sage Brush/Fern (Aug)	Black Pearl/Ebony Black Pearl/Saddle Taffeta White/Saddle Silver Metallic/Ebony Redrock/Saddle Havasu Blue/Ebony Mesa Beige/Saddle
Exterior Dimensions	2003 Pilot EX-L	2002 MDX Base
Length	188.0"	188.5"
Wheelbase	106.3"	106.3
Width	77.3"	77"
Track Front	66.3"	66.3"
Track Rear	66.5"	66.5"
Height	71.7"	68.7" (71.3" if roof rack added)
Weight	4,439 lbs	4,374 lbs
Weight Distribution Ratio	57%/43%	58%/42%
Ground Clearance	8.0"	8.0"
Steering Wheel Turns, Lock-to-Lock	3.22	3.22
Turning Circle Diameter	38.0	38.9
Towing Capacity (requires coolers)	3,500 lbs, 4,500 for boats; premium gas recommended for towing > 3,500 lbs	3,500 lbs, 4,500 for boats
Interior Features	2003 Pilot EX-L	2002 MDX Base
Driver's Seat Adjustments	8-way power with lumbar support	8-way power with lumbar support
Passenger's Seat Adjustments	4-way manual	4-way manual
Heated Front Seats	N/A	Standard
Automatic Climate Control	Standard; 2nd row HVAC subsystem	Standard; 2nd row HVAC subsystem
Interior Trim	"Metallic" plastic	Plastic "Wood"
One-touch-down Driver's Window	Standard	Standard
One-touch-up Driver's Window	Standard	N/A
Electrochromatic (auto-dimming) rear view mirror	Accessory	Standard
Center Console	Standard, with Cellular Phone Cradle	Standard
Beverage Holders	9	10
12-Volt Accessory Outlets	4 (Front, 2nd row, cargo area	3
1st Row Rear Seatback Pockets	Standard, upper & lower, mesh	Standard, lower
2nd Row Fold-Down Activity Tray	Standard	N/A
Cargo Net	Standard	Accessory
Passenger & Cargo Capacity	2003 Pilot EX-L	2002 MDX Base
Maximum Passengers	8	7
Third Row Seat	Split 60-40, 3 headrests/belts	Split 50-50, 2 headrests/belts
Passenger Volume	170.7 cubic ft	161.5 cubic ft
1st Row Headroom	41.9"	38.7"
1st Row Legroom	41.4"	41.5"
1st Row Shoulder Room	61.6"	61.2"
1st Row Hip Room	57.5"	56.9"
2nd Row Headroom	40.9"	39.0"
2nd Row Legroom	37.4"	37.8"
2nd Row Shoulder Room	61.4"	61.1"
2nd Row Hip Room	56.6"	56.3"
3rd Row Headroom	38.9"	36.3"
3rd Row Legroom	30.2"	29.3"
3rd Row Shoulder Room	58.8"	58.6"
3rd Row Hip Room	49.0"	48.5"
Cargo Capacity, 2nd & 3rd rows folded, cubic feet	90.3	82.0
Cargo Volume, 2nd row in use, 3rd row folded, cubic feet	48.7	49.6
Cargo Volume, 2nd & 3rd row in use, cubic feet	16.3	???
Audio & Electronics	2003 Pilot EX-L	2002 MDX Base
Audio System	AM/FM/CD/Cassette Auto System with 7 Speakers (including subwoofer), 155 watts	AM/FM/CD/Cassette Auto System with 7 Speakers (including subwoofer)
Radio Antenna	Integrated Side Window	Dorsal
CD Changer	Accessory - In-dash, 6 CD	Accessory - underseat, 6 CD
Trip Computer	N/A	Standard
Compass	Accessory	Standard
DVD Entertainment System	Available	N/A
Rear Collision Safety	Rear view camera & backup sensor are an accessories	N/A
Safety	2003 Pilot EX-L	2002 MDX Base
Expected IIHS Offset Frontal Crash Test Score	Good	Good
Actual IIHS Crash Test Score	To be tested	Good + Best Pick (2nd place among all tested SUV's)
Expected NHTSA Full Frontal Crash Test Scores	5-stars	5-stars
Actual NHTSA Full Frontal Crash Test Scores	N/A	N/A
Expected NHTSA Side Impact Crash Test Scores	5-stars	5-stars
Actual NHTSA Side Impact Crash Test Scores	N/A	5-stars front, 5-stars rear
Actual NHTSA Rollover Resistance Rating	N/A	4-stars
Support	2003 Pilot EX-L	2002 MDX Base
Warranty	3 years, 36,000 miles	4 years, 50,000 miles
Extended Warranties	Honda, to 7 years, 100,000 miles	Acura, to 7 years, 100,000 miles
Number of Dealerships	??? (lots)	??? (significantly less)
Service Perks with most dealerships		Free vacuum & wash Loaners

[TheWorm]

This message contains quotes from various auto reviews on the differences between the vehicle. Of course, these are the subjective opinions of the reviewers.

Car & Driver 6/02 Issue

http://caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddri...test_pilot.xml

"However, with smooth ride as a key dynamic priority, the Pilot's suspension tuning is a little softer than that of its more expensive cousin ... the Pilot exhibits more body roll in hard cornering than the sportier MDX ...

"The Acura can almost run down a BMW X5 3.0i on the road, whereas the Pilot feels noticeably porkier. Plus, the MDX's tangier styling makes the bland Pilot look like the byproduct of a Senate subcommittee on SUVs. If you have the extra money, spend it with my blessing."

Edmunds First Drive 5/23/02

http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/roadt...2/article.html

"The MDX makes slightly more torque at a lower rpm thanks to a more advanced intake manifold ...

"Suspension tuning is softer than the MDX. As a result, the Pilot isn't as entertaining to drive as its Acura cousin ..."

Autoworld 6/02 Issue

"The MDX is boutique stylish. The Pilot looks like it came off the dress-for-less at Target."

AutoWeek 5/15/02

http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content...._code=07179870

"The Pilot is basically a softer- sprung version of the Acura MDX, with a more rounded exterior and increased storage space inside. ...

"It’s actually a lot closer to the MDX than you might think ... gets the same powerful 240- horsepower, 242-lb-ft 3.5-liter V6 as the MDX ...

"Pilot’s interior is aimed at being more family-friendly than the style-conscious MDX."

The Car Connection 5/20/02

http://www.thecarconnection.com/inde...&sid=181&n=157

"There’s not a single panel of sheetmetal, nor a single pane of glass, shared with the up-market Acura model ...

"The interior is completely different, as well. For one thing, Honda’s version is an eight- seater, one more than the MDX. And while the automaker might not like to make the comparison, the Pilot is designed, in many ways, to function as a stylish substitute for the far less hip Honda Odyssey minivan. Under the skin, there are other changes in line with Pilot’s primary purpose as a people carrier. The ride is a bit softer, the emphasis on comfort, rather than performance.

"On road, the Pilot has a softer and more comfortable ride than MDX, reflecting the intended market."

[jtm]

Worm,

Very good information!!!

[Pirate-kat]

Good numbers, but the MDX is no faster than the PILOT. Read the Pilot reviews in C&D and MT June issues with the 8.1 & 8.19 numbers, but they had similar numbers for the MDX when MDX was introduced.

Consumer Reports which tests acceleration from an idle (no power-braking) recorded 8.0 sec 0-60 for MDX. which is consistent with MW 7.7 sec.

If CR can do 8.0, then C&D and MT are sandbagging numbers for MDX. They are doing the same for the Pilot.

Bottom line; MDX & Pilot have similar acceleration numbers - probably the 7.7 numbers from MW.

[GatorGreg]

Hey Worm, one thing I didn't see mentioned in William's comparo (maybe I missed it) was any mention of whether the rear windows roll all the way down. I think I read somewhere that unlike the 'X, the Pilot's rear windows actually roll all the way down (like the CR-V's ). I know it's a minor thing, but it sort of bugged me (and GG Jr.) back in my 'X days.

[wmquan]

Originally posted by GatorGreg
Hey Worm, one thing I didn't see mentioned in William's comparo (maybe I missed it) was any mention of whether the rear windows roll all the way down. I think I read somewhere that unlike the 'X, the Pilot's rear windows actually roll all the way down (like the CR-V's ). I know it's a minor thing, but it sort of bugged me (and GG Jr.) back in my 'X days.

If you can get me a link to the article that says it (as confirmation), I'll be happy to add it to the table (at least my copy of it, on acuramdx.org).

Moonkat: As far as 0-60 goes, yeah, I feel funny posting the lowest times but I think I want to see what Motor Week registers. I think when I see better comparative times I can lay them down. FWIW, the 2001 MDX that MW tested was about a hundred pounds lighter than the Pilot, though that obviously won't make a huge difference.

General:

Say, I tried posting my comparison table on Edmunds, but the software wouldn't accept my formatting. To me, it has to be in the form of a table to be useful (not text down the page).

So my only alternative was to post a link to the acuramdx.org forum. I then got a nastygram saying I had violated their "don't promote another website" policy and that the post was deleted! I can understand them being protective of their userbase, but 1) their software won't take the table; 2) the info was useful for potential Pilot buyers; and 3) sure it mentions a system that might compete for the users, but, frankly, I don't think it's a solicitation.

[GatorGreg]

Originally posted by wmquan
If you can get me a link to the article that says it (as confirmation), I'll be happy to add it to the table (at least my copy of it, on acuramdx.org).

It's in THIS review by Canadian Driver:

I noted that the rear side windows go all the way down.

[LiuBei]

I would have to say that I would go with the Pilot. Just personal preference.

[bob92]

In many forums there is ongoing chat about the MDX vs. the Pilot. One isn't necessarily better than the other, it's just that now we have more of a choice - it's like saying what's better, chocolate or vanilla ice cream.

Since they are made on the same assembly plant and share the same drivetrain, the overall quality/reliability and basic performance will be similar. Variations from vehicle to vehicle and in the test tracks probably account for the small differences in 0-60 times.

To me, the main differences when comparing an EX-L to a MDX premium are....

MDX has more fashionable style, Pilot is more utilitarian
MDX Is a bit more luxurious inside, the Pilot isn't too bad, either.
MDX may corner better, Pilot should ride a little better.
MDX is roomy, the Pilot is slightly roomier.
MDX offers extra features (sunroof, 17" wheels, etc.), Pilot is less money.
MDX options seem more geared to "professional" couples, Pilot seems more geared to families with children.

So one is not "better" than the other, it's just different. Like most of you, I’ve been curious what changes Honda made when designing the Pilot that distinguishes it from the MDX. My neighbor has an MDX. When my Pilot arrives, I’ll certainly compare it, inside, outside, top, and bottom, to see how they differ (I bet the underbody is identical, so the trailer hitch should be the same).

I was ready to buy an MDX Touring, but when the Pilot came out, I switched to an EX-L RES. I have no regrets, but I would also have no regrets if I had bought the MDX! Either way, you are getting a great vehicle.

Bob

[03pilot]

I agree totally. Its just that one would suit better than the other in certain circumstances.

I was considering MDX as well but after I heard about the Pilot, decided to wait and have a deposit on a Pilot-EX-L

Originally posted by bob92
In many forums there is ongoing chat about the MDX vs. the Pilot. One isn't necessarily better than the other, it's just that now we have more of a choice - it's like saying what's better, chocolate or vanilla ice cream.

Since they are made on the same assembly plant and share the same drivetrain, the overall quality/reliability and basic performance will be similar. Variations from vehicle to vehicle and in the test tracks probably account for the small differences in 0-60 times.

To me, the main differences when comparing an EX-L to a MDX premium are....

MDX has more fashionable style, Pilot is more utilitarian
MDX Is a bit more luxurious inside, the Pilot isn't too bad, either.
MDX may corner better, Pilot should ride a little better.
MDX is roomy, the Pilot is slightly roomier.
MDX offers extra features (sunroof, 17" wheels, etc.), Pilot is less money.
MDX options seem more geared to "professional" couples, Pilot seems more geared to families with children.

So one is not "better" than the other, it's just different. Like most of you, I’ve been curious what changes Honda made when designing the Pilot that distinguishes it from the MDX. My neighbor has an MDX. When my Pilot arrives, I’ll certainly compare it, inside, outside, top, and bottom, to see how they differ (I bet the underbody is identical, so the trailer hitch should be the same).

I was ready to buy an MDX Touring, but when the Pilot came out, I switched to an EX-L RES. I have no regrets, but I would also have no regrets if I had bought the MDX! Either way, you are getting a great vehicle.

Bob

[wmquan]

I agree. I think it's going to come down to a buyer's priorities.

Only thing I'm wondering about is the over-MSRP pricing of some Honda dealerships. If (and it's a big if) one can get a base MDX at MSRP, but the Pilot is, say, $2k over MSRP, the decision may get a bit thornier.

[bob92]

If the Pilot is thousands above MSRP and the MDX is selling at MSRP, then the choice to get the MDX gets that much stronger. My decision was based on me being able to get either vehicle at MSRP, which means the Touring MDX would cost $5300 more than the EX-L RES. While there are Honda dealers who are certainly selling way over MSRP, there are still Acura dealers that are doing the same for the MDX.

There are at least 3 Honda dealers in NM that are asking straight MSRP. The one Acura dealer in this state is also selling at MSRP, so my decision was easier.

Bob

[wmquan]

Originally posted by bob92
If the Pilot is thousands above MSRP and the MDX is selling at MSRP, then the choice to get the MDX gets that much stronger. My decision was based on me being able to get either vehicle at MSRP, which means the Touring MDX would cost $5300 more than the EX-L RES. While there are Honda dealers who are certainly selling way over MSRP, there are still Acura dealers that are doing the same for the MDX.

There are at least 3 Honda dealers in NM that are asking straight MSRP. The one Acura dealer in this state is also selling at MSRP, so my decision was easier.

Bob

Yep, your decision is certainly easier. Though a base MDX is closer in equipment to the EX-L RES than the MDX Touring you mentioned (neither MDX version has the RES, obviously). Thus the price difference between the EX-L RES and the base MDX is about $2,700, not $5,300.

I think the bigger problem is for a would-be EX-L buyer who may be facing a, say, $2,000 markup. The base MDX is $4,220+tax more than the EX-L. If one can find the MDX at base, then the MDX is "only" $2,220+tax more. Then the buyer has to figure out if the differences listed here are worth the $2,220+tax.

Either way, it's a win-win situation!

[yhlin]

Just went to a dealer today. They're asking for $4K mark up.
For an EX-L MSRP plus $4K, it's only ~$200 less than MDX base
MSRP. I was pretty much in shock and asking them the question:
"why do I want buy a HONDA Pilot when I can get a ACURA MDX
for $200 more"?

Guess what, they couldn't answer the question