Reliability? Honda vs. Toyota

[Brad Parkinson]

I moved from a Toyota Tacoma (2000 4WD extended cab) to my Pilot (05 EXL). I had 165,000 trouble free miles on the Tacoma. Probably the best vehicle I had ever owned. It was still without rattles when I sold it. I would have bought another Toyota if I could have found one with a seat that did not bother my back (I have no clue why the new seats bothered me, but they did). Failing to find a good seat, in a Toyota, I looked at other options, leading me to the Pilot.

I really like my Pilot. Very nice vehicle and it is a pleasure to drive. My question is: "will it last like a Toyota?" What do you think?

[jay]

Ask that question over at ToyotaNation, add to the results here, divide by 2, and you'll see it depends on who you ask.

[CMasten]

no question. I have several friends with various Hondas with 200- or even 300- thousand miles on em.. key is keeping them maintained like IM sure you did with your Toyota. Both excellent products.

[sski]

I agree. When my sister was car shopping she was looking at both Hondas and Toyotas. I told her to buy whatever she liked better and got the better deal on. Reliability was not part of the decision making process if Toyota and Honda are on your short list. She bought a Matrix. (The dealer actually gave her $1000 for her P.O.S. 1996 Chev Cavalier, I said take the money and run)

[gpraceman]

We have had several Toyotas, which have been good vehicles with little corrective maintenance needed. That was until we bought my wife's '00 Sienna. We lost the tranny with only 2,500 miles on it, just outside of Mesquite, NV. Toyota, of course, took care of it and gave us a rental, but it really spoiled our trip to Colorado. We didn't get the vehicle back until we had returned back to San Diego.

We had one of the window motors conk out on us. Failed in down position during winter (of course). Now the van is burning oil. I got some notice in the mail recently about a class action settlement regarding an oil gel problem, which may explain it. So, these things have soured me on Toyotas.

My '92 Acura Integra in contrast has been the best vehicle that I have owned. It has about 201K miles on it and still running strong and getting 30+ mpg. It does leak some oil, but not much. My teenage daughter is driving it now. It is a far better vehicle than the '72 Ford LTD (a tank) that I had as my first vehicle, or the Ford Torino (a scary vehicle to drive) I had after that.

[rockman19762001]

I owned Toyota's and Honda's, both have been trouble free for many miles. My only problem with Toyota or Honda has been the replacement cost for items. But, then again, when the truck or car goes over 100,000 miles with no major problem other than standard maintenance. One can afford to pay more for an alternator or water pump. I will not purchase anything in the future but Honda's or Toyota's. The Honda car's I owned have gone 150,000 miles before I replaced them. The Honda Truck was 15 years old with 140,000 on the odometer when I sold it. I would have no problem recommending a Honda product. But, just like any mass manufactured product every now and then a lemon is created.

[whizmo]

The only data we have (Consumer Reports) says, on average, that Toyotas have slightly fewer problems than Hondas. But for any invdividual model, it may flip back and forth. For example, the Corolla has better numbers than the Civic, but the CR-V has better numbers than the Rav-4. Even these differences, small as they are, are probably influenced by the variations in how each vehicle is used; for example, the Civic is much more likely to be bought by younger, less experienced drivers, who will probably drive it more aggressively and modify it more than a Corolla.

You're splitting hairs to draw meaningful differences between the two marques on the whole.

- Mark

[TR4Runner]

Interesting question.... and I think both Toyota and Honda are close in quality and reliability. As most of you probably know, Honda had some issues with the automatic transmissions in a wide selection of Honda/Acura vehicle. Toyota had some engine sludge issues in a few configuations of engines. Overall, I think the two companies are the best possible bet for reliability.

I read an article in a trade magazine that made the argument that new vehicles have reached a plateau when it comes to reliability. They became so reliable that it began to get to the point that improvements in reliability were difficult. Add the fact that vehicles are getting much more complex than ever before, and it's not a surprise that they've come to a plateau.

[BoomerSooner]

I've owned both Hondas and Toyotas and haven't owned any other type of available since I got my drivers license.

My first car was a 1987 Honda Prelude, I ran that thing until it had 225,000 I did alot of traveling in that thing. Just did the usual oil changes etc..

I also owned a Corolla still have it , we call it the beater, and it had 175,000 miles on it and still runs like a dream.

I had an Odyssey and had it for 115,000 miles

The wifey and I currently have a 06' Honda Accord, a 07' Camry, and of course the Pilot.

My parents own Toyotas and Honda's too, My dad drives a Sequoia and also has a Ridgeline , my mom drives Avalon .

Both my brothers each have 4-runners

My sister has an 07' CRV.

So as you can see we are happy with Hondas or toyotas, while there might be that occassional thing that may go wrong with a car, I think they have far less problems than others.

[whizmo]

Originally posted by TR4Runner
I read an article in a trade magazine that made the argument that new vehicles have reached a plateau when it comes to reliability. They became so reliable that it began to get to the point that improvements in reliability were difficult. Add the fact that vehicles are getting much more complex than ever before, and it's not a surprise that they've come to a plateau.

Good point. The weak points in modern automobiles are not the fundamental engine, steering, suspension, brakes, etc. systems but all the electronics, gizmos, and software. Since all the Japanese mfgs tend to use the same subcontractors for these electronics, the things that tend to govern reliability are very similar in many different cars built by different Japanese mfgs. So it's not too surprising that reliability is fairly similar.

- Mark

[TR4Runner]

Originally posted by whizmo


Good point. The weak points in modern automobiles are not the fundamental engine, steering, suspension, brakes, etc. systems but all the electronics, gizmos, and software. Since all the Japanese mfgs tend to use the same subcontractors for these electronics, the things that tend to govern reliability are very similar in many different cars built by different Japanese mfgs. So it's not too surprising that reliability is fairly similar.

- Mark

That's definitely a big part of overall reliability, but there is another aspect that also plays a big role--tolerances. There have been studies conducted where the drivetrain of Japanase and American vehicles have been disassembled and compared. The overwhelming majority of systems in Japanese vehicles were assembled to much tighter tolerances than the same systems in American vehicles. Most studies concluded that the tighter tolerances were a main reason that the Japanese vehicles lasted longer and were more reliable over their service lives.

I'll see if I can find some info and post a link if anyone is interested.

[2007Pilotex]

Originally posted by TR4Runner


That's definitely a big part of overall reliability, but there is another aspect that also plays a big role--tolerances. There have been studies conducted where the drivetrain of Japanase and American vehicles have been disassembled and compared. The overwhelming majority of systems in Japanese vehicles were assembled to much tighter tolerances than the same systems in American vehicles. Most studies concluded that the tighter tolerances were a main reason that the Japanese vehicles lasted longer and were more reliable over their service lives.

I'll see if I can find some info and post a link if anyone is interested.

While I will agree Japanese vehicles are on the avg probably still made better, (at least better resale value) the American cars have closed the quality gap quite a bit over the years. The American cars are not made as bad as some people make them out to be. Case in point, my 2000 Infiniti i30t (made in Japan) had nothing but problems. Squeaks, rattles that would come and go, mechanical, etc. I traded that in on the Pilot, hoping the 2nd time around a Japanese car will be reliable. So far so good. My Dad's 2003 Odyssey has had it share of reliablity issues too. Transmission failure, weather seals, blower motor, etc.

[pjb3]

Originally posted by TR4Runner

I'll see if I can find some info and post a link if anyone is interested.

I would be interested if you can find it.

[TR4Runner]

Originally posted by 2007Pilotex


While I will agree Japanese vehicles are on the avg probably still made better, (at least better resale value) the American cars have closed the quality gap quite a bit over the years. The American cars are not made as bad as some people make them out to be. Case in point, my 2000 Infiniti i30t (made in Japan) had nothing but problems. Squeaks, rattles that would come and go, mechanical, etc. I traded that in on the Pilot, hoping the 2nd time around a Japanese car will be reliable. So far so good. My Dad's 2003 Odyssey has had it share of reliablity issues too. Transmission failure, weather seals, blower motor, etc.

The problems with the Infiniti don't surprise me....Nissan isn't really in the same league as Honda and Toyota. I'd still expect a Nissan to have fewer problems (on average) than any American vehicle. Besides, nobody can really make a point by mentioned that he or she had one vehicle (of any brand) that was unreliable or problematic. Gotta look at the averages to be fair...

I agree that American vehicles have gotten better over the years, but I wouldn't say that closed the gap by very much. In my opinion, the problem is that Japanese cars got to a level that became harder and harder to improve upon. In the meantime, American cars were so bad that it was easy for them to improve. So yes, American cars may be better than they were in the past, but they have a long way to go to catch Honda/Toyota.

[jl_ss]

Originally posted by TR4Runner


The problems with the Infiniti don't surprise me....Nissan isn't really in the same league as Honda and Toyota. I'd still expect a Nissan to have fewer problems (on average) than any American vehicle. Besides, nobody can really make a point by mentioned that he or she had one vehicle (of any brand) that was unreliable or problematic. Gotta look at the averages to be fair...

On the average, Infiniti/Nissan makes fairly reliable cars but their larger vehicles (Armada, QX56, Quest, Titan) show up at the bottom of the reliability charts. I don't believe you can generalize a manufacturer's reliability except for maybe Honda and Toyota. Even then, they had wide problems with trannies (Honda) and engine sludge (Toyota). Everyone other brand, you need to look at the individual model category you are purchasing.