Hybrid Pilot: How much more would you pay?

[sski]

I was using the base Civic with a 5 spd. To be fair using a top of the line Civic Si (same as EX in the U.S) the cost difference is still $7000.00. In this case the time to recover your cost is still approx. 19-20 years.

I checked the Honda USA site and the difference really is about $2100.00.

The problem is that the Civic Hybrid is way more expensive here. After converting your price into CDN dollars we still pay an extra 5000.00. (ie/ the $2000 difference you quoted plus the extra $5000 we seem to pay = $7000) The price on regular Civics seems to be comparable between U.S. and CDN dollars.

I wonder if there is more demand in the US (California). I can't image anyone would buy a Hybrid in Canada based on the $$$.

[jay]

Originally posted by sski
I was using the base Civic with a 5 spd. To be fair using a top of the line Civic Si (same as EX in the U.S) the cost difference is still $7000.00. In this case the time to recover your cost is still approx. 19-20 years.

I checked the Honda USA site and the difference really is about $2100.00.

The problem is that the Civic Hybrid is way more expensive here. After converting your price into CDN dollars we still pay an extra 5000.00. (ie/ the $2000 difference you quoted plus the extra $5000 we seem to pay = $7000) The price on regular Civics seems to be comparable between U.S. and CDN dollars.

I wonder if there is more demand in the US (California). I can't image anyone would buy a Hybrid in Canada based on the $$$.

People buy hybrids here so they can use the HOV commuter lanes without having to have at least two (sometimes three) people in the vehicle. I see a lot of hybrids every day zipping along in HOV lanes with only the driver in them.

[N_Jay]

Originally posted by bcclements


In reference to GM...

I watched an interview on CNBC during the recent Detroit Auto Show. The question was basically where's your hybrid since Toyota and Honda have one.

The GM executive said something like don't except one in the near furure.

Perhaps they are working on one as your link suggests, just don't hold your breath.

It could be they are WAY behind because they followed the US gov ($$) who where following the greenies down the foolish road to the electric car!

[N_Jay]

Originally posted by Qbrozen
n-jay - sorry, but I'm not getting anything out of that post that proves the batteries need replacing at 80K miles. Don't get me wrong, I respect your opinion and everything, but I'm looking for hard facts one way or the other.

And, aside from the initial price and gas consumption, what is not equal between the Civic Hybrid and Civic EX?

And, actually, if you compare the evolutionary path of the batteries in these systems to many other forms of technology, it has progressed at a respectable rate. Look at a motorcar in 1903 compared to a motorcar today. It took 100 years to get to this point and we're still using the same basic internal combustion engine. Its just more powerful and more efficient.


sski - what models are you comparing? Here in the states, the Civic EX and Hybrid are equipped exactly the same aside from the drivetrain. The difference between these 2 models is $2100.

But, if you only want the equipment level of an LX, then the Hybrid is much more because they don't offer it with less equipment.

As I said, I am guessing the 8 year/80 K mile life, but it is an educated guess. (I have designed large battery power systems for communications equipment, and have been through "Warranty Discussion Hell" as a product manager).

If I rember correctly, the Civic Hybrid does not offer the same performance level as the Civic, has less cargo capacity, and less weight capacity.

I beleive that some of the cost of each Civic Hybrid is payed for from goverment subsities of some type (or the reduction of other regulation related costs like the cost to meet CAFE) That would account for the difference between teh US and Canadian markets.

[CNYGuy]

Originally posted by jay
People buy hybrids here so they can use the HOV commuter lanes without having to have at least two (sometimes three) people in the vehicle. I see a lot of hybrids every day zipping along in HOV lanes with only the driver in them.

Wish we had nice roads with HOV lanes. Come to think of it, just having nice roads would be OK too.

[tseeb]

In California, hybrids cannot use the commuter lanes.

Super Low Emission Vehicles can from 2004-2007. These are electric and natural gas not hybrids. For a list see http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/carpool/carpool.htm

San Jose, CA allows free meter and public garage parking to hybrids purchased in San Jose.
http://www.ci.san-jose.ca.us/dot/wha...brid/index.htm

[jay]

Originally posted by CNYGuy


Wish we had nice roads with HOV lanes. Come to think of it, just having nice roads would be OK too.

Wish we had nice roads without them. HOV lanes cause more congestion than they prevent, and the roads in this area have really deteriorated in the last few years.

[elduderino]

The reported gas mileage improvement on the RX400h is only 6 mpg better than the RX330. But, the reported HP and torque output is impressively higher; almost near where a V8 would produce. Hard to imagine that an electric motor can put out that type of muscle.

[N_Jay]

Originally posted by elduderino
The reported gas mileage improvement on the RX400h is only 6 mpg better than the RX330. But, the reported HP and torque output is impressively higher; almost near where a V8 would produce. Hard to imagine that an electric motor can put out that type of muscle.

Torque is what electric motors are good at!

Typically over the operating range a gas engine puts out even torque with HP building with speed.

Typically an electric motor puts out a fixed amount of HP with torque dropping off as speed increases.

[camanopilot]

Any and all reduction of our (USA) dependancy on fossil fuel is a positive. Think about the number of barrels of oil we would need if ALL vehicles got only 5 MPG better. The number is staggering!

IMO - it's a small price to pay

[swirl]

I would have bought a hybrid pilot no questions asked! I think all the complainers our clueless and missed one thing about the car costing $2000- $2500 more then my gas eating Pilot now.

If you have any clue about taxes you get a $2000 tax credit on your income tax for owning a hybrid car. So lets do the math all over again, and post new numbers.


Plus $2000 for hybrid!
Minus $2000 tax credit.

LOOK break even and save on gas.

I can tell you one thing the American companies are in bed with the oil companies.
Any company not working on clean fuel cars is clueless.

Example:

1) Everyone here owns a Honda! Honda is working on hybrids at this time.
2) American companies are going to be left in the dark in 3-5 years when Honda and Toyota have record sales.
3) GM had a hybrid a few years ago, it was called a Saturn and they caned it. They made up some lame excuse that they had no sales. Funny thing was Saturn dealership had over 2000 deposits for cars they could not deliver. I wonder if the CEO ‘s got any bonuses under the table that year.

[GreenMachine]

Originally posted by swirl
If you have any clue about taxes you get a $2000 tax credit on your income tax for owning a hybrid car.

Thought it was a tax deduction, not a credit. But hey, it's still better than nothing.

[Birdman]

My wife has a Civic Hybrid that we both really really like. It's a great car, with excellent acceleration, braking, and handling. She bought it used off Ebay so we checked on warranty information carefully before the purchase. There is almost no real world information about how long the NiMH battery will last, since the Civic Hybrid has not been out long enough to know. The service department at the dealer told me that the battery was less than $1900 installed and the manager fully expected it to last at least the 8/80,000 of its warranty. I have a 10 mile city commute and when I've been allowed to drive it, I've recorded 60+ mpg. On the highway the mileage is less because the gas engine does all the work. On 2 extended interstate trips I've recorded 43 mpg. Both of those are excellent and allows me to laugh at the gas stations on my way by The car will work fine even if the main battery dies, it just won't accelerate as well or get as good a gas mileage.

I also like clean air a lot. The emissions of the Civic Hybrid are extremely low.

For those of you that want a factual, reasoned discussion of the economic and environmental merits of hybrid vs. other technology, the latest issue (May 2004) of Scientific American covers the basics. Hybrids hold up well in the comparisons.

If a hybrid Pilot were available, I would definitely get one. The Civic has made a believer out of me.

[tracy]

DETROIT (Reuters) - Ford Motor Co.'s new Escape Hybrid sport utility vehicle, with an electric motor to help its engine wring twice as many miles from a gallon of gasoline, will cost at least $3,300 more than a standard Escape SUV, the automaker said on Monday.

[pilot_chip]

also I heard from a co-worker that if ever a hybrid is in a bad
accident and the jaws of life has to be used , they have to be careful about where they cut so that someone does not get
electrocuted.

if everything from costs/maintenance to performance were
guaranteed , I would definitely get it ( for my son's and his children's future ) ....



http://www.highbeam.com/library/doc0...7&refid=ink_d1