You must have purchased the amphibious option. Cool.

 

I had that issue on my 2004 in the past. I climbed under the vehicle and checked it out. The problem was one of the U-joint bolts was missing were the driveshaft attached to front helix gearbox on the side of transaxle. Once I put in a new bolt, the problem went away. Did you climb under the vehicle and check all the bolts or look for any signs of where a weight may have fallen off the shaft?

If you want to remove the entire propeller shaft, I think you can do that relatively easy by removing the 4 bolts at the front, 4 at the rear, and remove the 2 bolts holding the center bearing in place. I would recommend an air wrench and a jack to support it though. Also, mark the orientation of the ends relative to the mating surfaces on the front and rear.

 

Also, if you do remove the shaft, turn off VSA or it may go nuts if there's any wheel slippage.

 

When driving along at those speeds it's a fwd car. Have you eliminated all other causes? Shafts really don't get unbalanced. Loss of bolts can happen. You also have a carrier bearing to consider. A very very few people have had those go bad

 

The driveshaft does spin at all road speeds.

Look for spots where a weight may have let loose.

There is a driveshaft shop around here that will balance it for $55

I would not drive it with the shaft removed.

 

I'd have your tire balance checked and possibly even have a road-force balance done if the shop says they're not out of balance. I've had driveshaft vibrations with a previous vehicle and they're nothing like a tire balance issue. A tire balance issue is like you describe, feel it in the seat of your pants if it's a rear tire.

A driveshaft vibration is more of a buzzing kind of vibration that you can feel/hear throughout the vehicle, much higher frequency than a tire vibration/balance problem, kind of like driving on a rumble strip on the edge of a road but wasn't that severe. For me it also started at a particular speed and never went away above it.

As for "at those speeds it's a fwd car", that may be the case in terms of torque split but that doesn't mean the rear driveshaft isn't spinning equally as fast.

The problem you're going to have if you remove the rear driveshaft and try to drive is that you either won't go anywhere or you could possibly smoke the transfer-case, all while freaking the VTM-4 system out. On acceleration under normal conditions the VTM-4 system sends a fair amount of torque to the rear, with no driveshaft tying the t-case output to the ground you're basically going to get no torque requirement from the rear and as a result send barely any more than that to the front. The VTM-4 system doesn't allow a part-time 4wd mode where you can fully mechanically lock the front and rear driveshafts together at all speeds and effectively turn a RWD/4WD Jeep (or similar) into a FWD Jeep in a pinch.

Or, short answer, no I wouldn't suggest attempting this. Whether or not it's a driveshaft problem you could end up damaging the VTM-4 system and that would suck.

 

The problem you're going to have if you remove the rear driveshaft and try to drive is that you either won't go anywhere or you could possibly smoke the transfer-case, all while freaking the VTM-4 system out.

But if you follow that logic, then the transfer case inside the transaxle would get "smoked" if the VTM4 fuse blows.

 

Yagooligan: blow up the diff??? That's total BS. The transfer case diff is a normal style open diff without any electronics involved.

 

You do know what happens when only one side of a diff turns, right? It spins twice as fast.

Also, if it's a plain open diff can you explain how the system is able to change torque bias at will? That's not something you can do with an open diff. There's a bit more to it.

EDIT:

To add to this, if it is a normal open diff and the rear torque bias is controlled ONLY by the clutches in the rear diff then what I said in my first post stands; The Pilot won't move because the rear output shaft torque requirements determine how much torque gets sent to the front output shaft. Since this requirement is basically zero all that will happen is the rear output shaft spins, and because the front shaft isn't spinning the rear output spins twice as fast.

Also note that I didn't say damage is a definite. I said EITHER you won't go anywhere OR you might damage the t-case.

Let's try to keep things logical and civil, shall we?

 

Well here is the deal...fficeffice" /><O></O>
I did it last night and found my vibration! <O></O>
<O></O>
It is the rear drive shaft that is causing the problem. I took it out last night and drove it for a couple of miles on brand new blacktop and it drives smooth as glass with the shaft removed.<O></O>
<O></O>
I talked to a certified Honda Senior Mechanic and he said it would NOT hurt a dam thing taking the shaft out and driving it anywhere. The rear drive shaft spins the same from getting driven by the rear wheels. So taking out the rear shaft will not hurt anything, no warning lights or anything.<O></O>

 

I'd be interested in seeing a diagram of the entire VTM-4 system, it sounds like based on you being able to drive with the rear shaft removed that the t-case is basically a secondary power transfer system. What I mean by this is that in a normal 4WD system the power from the engine is sent directly to the transfer case and the transfer case sends power/torque to the front and rear based on what mode it's in.

In the case of VTM-4, it seems power goes from the engine to the transaxle and then from the transaxle to the t-case, so the front wheels are always driven no matter what is happening with the t-case. That's good to know, learn something new every day. I'm used to traditional part-time and full-time 4WD systems, still getting everything figured out with VTM-4. :29:

 

Yahooligan:
I am no way Jonnie "Mr. Goodwrench" but I have changed ring & pinion gears more than once in my life. I have my own Collision shop that I have ran for 30 years. Have I worked on the VTM-4 rear end no. I have talked to a Certified Honda mechanic about it and I gotta tell ya, I think he would know Just a little more than the average guy.
By the way what the hell is "torque bias"??

All the magic happens it the rear VTM-4 Rear diff. the transfercase just drives the axles thats it. Per the Honda Tech.

I did drive the Pilot last night, You cant tell the difference if the rear shaft is in there or not. As long as you drive normal, and not try to burn out in it or drive off road and spin the tires. No warning lights, no damage or anything.

 

I'm assuming you didn't read my reply to your post, because if you did then I'm not sure where you're coming from since I didn't say anything contradictory to what the Honda tech said. My response to rocky was before you posted up what happened after removing the shaft. I actually do have a professional history with automotive systems, albeit the vehicles didn't have systems like VTM-4 so I'm still figuring out the ins and outs of how it's all tied together.

 

Sorry, I wish I could drive it like this for a while, but they want it in the service dept in am to get this covered under warr. for me. The rear end is very complicated!!
Here is the pict you requested:

 

Thanks,

Yeah, I have that one of the rear diff from the VTM-4 PDF but what I'm missing is a diagram of the transaxle and t-case setup. I haven't really spent any time looking for it, but that's not a big deal. In your case it sounds like you found your answer and can get it fixed. :29:

I'll keep looking for info on the rest of the VTM-4 system and will post it up in another thread for those that are interested.

 

For your viewing pleasure: pictures of the guts of the rear VTM4 system:

http://mypage.siu.edu/jeepster/vtm4.html

From the service manual, there is a traditional front differential buried inside the transaxle. But there is no center differential. The final drive gear in the transaxle drives both the front differential and the rear propeller shaft via the hypoid drive gearbox. In essence, the propeller shaft to the rear has direct linkage to the final drive gear in the transaxle. The front-to-back torque bias is handled via the 2 electric clutches in the rear VTM4 system. Keep in mind VTM4 is not a traditional differential. If both rear clutches are deactivated, each rear wheel spins freely.

If you want to learn more, I suggest the factory service manual.

 

Thanks, that's what I started to suspect but couldn't confirm without a diagram or more info. It sounds like, in basic terms, the rear output shaft from the transaxle is directly connected to what would be the ring gear for the front axle. This would allow the front tires to still function normally without affecting the front diff's operation and would send equal power out to the rear differential, which like you said controls torque via the clutches.

 

Yahooligan: i know what happen with an AWD system with three open diffs and one wheel off the ground. The vehicle goes nowhere. Glad you got to see a little more if Pilots AWD system.

 

Just dropped it off at the dealership, and they were very cool about the whole thing so far. I am waiting for the call that says they can't duplicate the problem. The good thing is the one tech I know will say something to the advisor and test drive it himself.


Sent from my iPhone using AG Free

 

Good news! Its Fixed! They found the same thing I did. They "The Dealer" drove it with no drive shaft and agreed with me that my shaft was bad. They replaced it with a new one and wa-laa, Fixed!:29:

 

I am taking my '13 Pilot Touring 4x4 in next week for the same issue. I have the VCM shudder issue but it's doesn't bug me, but the vibration while accelerating really bothers me. I'm working directly with the Service Manager and told him lets take a logical 2 step approach. Lets first look at the wheels and tires. Make sure they are aligned, balanced and true. I believe they are but I'll play the game. Next we'll look at the propeller shaft. Told him of your story of removing the shaft and driving. Will tell them to do the same if necessary. Keeping my fingers crossed this is the issue and can be easily resolved.

While I enjoy a nice butt massage as much as the next guy, I didn't buy the Pilot for that reason, though some may consider it a perk.

 

Driveshaft issues

Yes they can be driven with the rear shaft removed. I bought a used 2011 Pilot in Jan 2018 with 109k on it. I noticed it had a pronounced vibration at about 55 mph. I removed the shaft to find that both the u-joints had tight spots in them. As everyone knows, you must replace the entire shaft assembly. I ordered one right from the Honda dealer and drove the vehicle without it for about a week. During that time the only vibrations I had were when the Eco mode was engaged and an easy to install kit purchased on E-Bay rectified that problem nicely. The car now was driving flawlessly and as smooth as glass at all speeds. I received my new shaft a few days later and installed it. I now had a vibration at 40-50 mph that was definitely first order, accel or decal. Tried different timing combinations on the flanges but had no luck. I also verified with a dial indicator that both flanges were true on both planes. I removed the shaft and sent out for balancing, another $224.00 later my Pilot is vibration free and driving like a Honda should. I'm not sure who manufactures these shafts for Honda, but the machine shop informed me that several auto manufacturers are experiencing this issue. Just wanted to share my experience to maybe save someone from the headache I had.

 

Can the 2015 also be driven without the propeller shaft for testing? Having the same issue and am planning to drop the shaft to see if vibration goes away. Are there any issues doing this on a 2015 model (ex-l)? Thank you!

 

Can the 2010 Pilot with 4wd be driven with the propeller shaft between front and rear axles removed? I have a vibration that starts at 40 mph and slowly goes away about 60 mph. You can feel it in the seat of your pants. I really believe it the drive shaft balance. This is the only way I can rule out the drive shaft.
Speed Test
Thank You for ANY info....

Have you eliminated all other causes? Shafts really don't get unbalanced. Loss of bolts can happen.