First time buying questions

[mac622]

Hello all,

I'm new to the forum so apologies in advance if this is listed under the incorrect category of if any of my questions/rhetoric are nonsensical or if it's been covered previously. I've done my best to view the sticky's for the do's and don'ts of the this forum and I did try searching for answers to some of my questions but I wasn't able to find anything conclusive so I've decided to create a new thread.


Background:
We're contemplating our first Honda purchase. Over the last 15 years my wife and I have owned 3 Chrysler T&C's. Let me just say that I will NEVER buy another Chrysler product again - ever! This last one, a 2005 Limited, has been the biggest POS imaginable. The previous two (1996 and 2001) we ok but they've been getting progressively worse. Anyway (apologies for the rant), our kids are now 14 and 11 and my wife and I have decided to graduate from a minivan to a crossover. I've always heard how much people love their Honda's but what sealed it for me was a recent discussion I had with my best friend and one of his employees. This friend owns a private transmission shop - not a chain like AAmco, Lee Myles, etc. I was sharing my disgust with him (again) about our T&C and was saying I needed to make a move soon while there is some residual value left in the damn thing. I asked who he thought makes the best minivans and crossover vehicles out there nowadays and he unequivocally said Honda - hands down. His employee, who is the head rebuilder at the shop, also stated the same. Over the years they have always held Toyota right up there or slightly ahead of Honda for minivans and others but they said Toyota's quality just isn't the same any longer as they've been having more and more computer/electronics issues. But, what really sealed it for me, was the fact that they stated Honda transmissions are one of the most expensive to rebuild - and thus very costly for the customers to have done - but when they give customers a quote the customers rarely flinch go ahead and get the work done. They both said that their customers love their Hondas that much that it's worth it for them to pay several thousand in repairs for a car that can have as much as 150-200K miles on it. That's some pretty compelling testimony!

Current:
Deciding to pursue Honda as a replacement for our current POS we've gone out over the past week or so and test drove several used 2009 Pilots. I thought they were great as did my wife. I'm not averse to 2010, 2011 or even 2008 models but it seems there is a plethora of 2009 models available, and the mileage and cost on most of those are within our comfort zone so that's what we've been focusing on. I'm assuming the abundance of 2009's has to do with the 3 year leases being turned in?? Anyway, we're usually not too particular about options, add-ons, etc. but what we've learned over the years is that with kids leather interiors are a must (too bad they don't make vinyl interiors any longer!) and my wife prefers to have a factory navigation system and needs the backup assist camera (no disrespect to her at all :-)). So, what we're currently looking at is either an EX-L with navigation or a Touring with NAV. We don't care one way or another about a RES as the kids keep themselves busy with other gadgets and can always watch movies on mom's iPad.


So, now to the questions. I've spent a lot of time on the net over the last several days (that's how I came across this site - thank you!) researching dealerships, comparing models, checking availability and pricing, KBB, NADA, etc. etc and am running on a little bit of information overload at the moment. I have questions about a couple things I'm confused about and a then a few straightforward opinion questions so I'm just going to list them in bullet form below in no particular order. I would appreciate any thoughts, insights, suggestions you may have to any or all of these questions. Here it goes:

1 - Are there any years where NAV and RES are standard items in the Touring model? I received many conflicting answers from the experts (salespeople at the dealerships)
2 - I believe the 2009 Touring model w/NAV comes standard with the rear assist camera but does an EX-L with NAV as an option come with the rear assist camera as well?
3 - Are there known defects or issues I should look for when looking at used Pilots?
4 - For a 2009 model, what would you consider to be an "acceptable" mileage limit. Obviously mileage and price are related but would you feel comfortable buying a 2009 model with, say, 70K miles? I think the most I've seen on the ones I've looked at was 55K. They all seem to be more in the 25K to 45K range which seems normal
5 -Do you feel there are any negatives in buying an off-lease vehicle? I'm well aware of the rental vehicle issues but am curious to hear thoughts on off-lease

The next few questions may be more regional in nature so I'd love to hear from some folks in the Tri-state area.
6 - In determining relatively consistent, accurate used values which pricing site do you prefer? It seems like KBB is skewed way in favor of dealers nowadays as compared to NADA and TVM. I'd like to compare each dealer's inventory and pricing against the preferred site to get a sense whether to negotiate more or less off their sticker.
7 - Assuming a particular dealer's used retail prices are in line with one of pricing sites above and taking into account the current economic environment, supply/demand, etc. what have you found to be the maximum - in % terms - a dealer is willing to negotiate off their sticker price? For example, if a dealer has sticker of $30,000 on a 2009 Touring with 20,000 miles (pretty accurate guesstimate of what I've seen over the last week) do you think a dealer would come down 10% or $3,000 or do you think something more in line with $2,000 or 6.667% (or even less)?
8 - What have you found to be the best negotiating tool when discussing the trade-in value of your car and what pricing site have you found to be the most accurate in terms of what the dealer actually ends up giving you? In the past, I've had success with negotiating the net price as opposed to prices of the purchased vehicle and trade-in vehicle separately but am curious as to what has worked best for you folks? About 7-8 years ago when interest rates were higher I included that into the mix and negotiated on a monthly payment basis. Not sure that is such a great tactic though as a $500 change in price has a relatively minimal effects on the monthly payment number so it's easy for a dealer to say "it's only $10.32 more a month" or something along those lines.
9 - If I decided to buy new - which is a remote possibility but not out of the question - what are dealers willing to down off the sticker price or sell above invoice?

I have some other relative minor questions as well but I'll stop here as i think I may have already pushed the limit! Looking forward to hearing your opinions/thoughts.

Thanks,
Ian

[xGS]

MY2009 + 2010
Touring:
NAV - Std.
RES - Opt.
Rear view camera - included w/NAV

EX-L:
NAV - N/A
RES - Opt.
Rear view camera - display in rear view mirror

MY2011
Touring:
NAV - Std.
RES - Std.
Rear view camera - included w/NAV

EX-L:
NAV - Opt.
RES - Opt.
Rear view camera - included w/NAV option or display in rear view mirror w/o NAV

[mac622]

Thanks for the info!

[mac622]

I realize I asked a lot of questions but I'm wondering if someone might be able to quickly answer my question about what you've typically been able to offer a dealer without being to low (#7). I saw a very nice '09 last night and would like to make an offer but was hoping someone might have chimed in by now. Would love to hear from someone.

Thanks

[chas22]

Your best bet on any Honda or Acura is not to buy the first or last year of a body style.