Honda Pilot reliability - how does it compare?

[mkaresh]

In late 2005 I started conducting my own reliability research. I'm reporting absolute stats like "times in the shop" that will make the differences between cars much clearer. Relative ratings obscure too much--how large is the difference between "better than average" and "worse than average"? I’ll also be updating results four times a year, so there will be information on new models sooner.

Thanks partly to the help of this forum and the support of its owner, for which I am grateful, I've started collecting data on every model year, including the new 2009. Sample sizes for these remain marginal, though.

Participants report repairs the month after they occur on a one-page survey. When there are no repairs, they simply report an approximate odometer reading four times a year, at the end of each quarter.

To encourage participation, panel members will receive full access to the results free of charge.

For the details, and to sign up:

Vehicle reliability research

Comments, questions, and suggestions welcome.

[tgrimes]

I use consumer reports. The newest issued received last week puts the Pilot, and Honda's, at the top of their respective classes. Honda and Toyota are clearly the industry leaders in every respect.

[mkaresh]

I wouldn't go so far as to say "every respect." Even CR criticizes Hondas for road noise.

My primary issues with CR, though, concern how they gather and report their reliability data. They skate by because they've had no real competition and few people scrutinize their methods, least of all the press. Instead, there's a lot of blind trust, and it's not warranted.

A couple of my critiques:

http://www.truedelta.com/pieces/shortcomings.php

http://www.truedelta.com/pieces/cr_survey.php

Beyond the points I raise in my critiques, the data used for their reliability ratings is generally old. The auto issue is just out, but the reliability ratings in it are based on data that is nearly a year old. My research demonstrates how it is possible to provide much "fresher" results. On average, my information will be over ten months more recent than theirs.

This helps in two way:

--when looking at used cars, would you like to know how reliable a car was a year ago, when it was a year younger, or how reliable it has been recently?

--with new designs, would you like to have an initial read a few months after they go on sale, or a full year later, after the new design is already in its second year and no longer new?

[rockman19762001]

Found this on the Advance Auto Parts website, you can look up other brands and models for the same data.

Rating Overview
PartsAmerica.com reliability ratings are built from data collected in nearly 1.5 million calls from professional technicians seeking assistance in fixing every make and model on the road. Use these ratings to shop for a good used car or as an aid in discussing needed repairs with your mechanic.
Selected vehicle: HONDA PILOT
Few problems Moderate problems Significant problems
Click on the model year to view a complete reliability report. Or, click on a symbol beneath the Automotive system heading for a particular year to view comments on that system.
Year Engine Transmission Steering Brakes Heating Starting Power
2003 Few Problems Few Problems Few Problems Few Problems Few Problems Few Problems Few Problems
PartsAmerica.com is a trusted provider of car reliability ratings for any automobile. We cover a comprehensive selection of vehicles of all makes, so that you are sure to find the reliability ratings that you need.

[mkaresh]

I think this is the same information you can find at msn.com.

It's interesting stuff, but they're just guessing at the frequencies. Essentially, they get a call when a mechanic can't figure something out. Most problems I don't imagine they get a call for, since the mechanic knows what to do to fix it.

But the maiin problem with any repair shop-based study is you don't know how many cars aren't getting repairs. You have some idea of the numerator, but what's the denominator? I assume they use sales figures as a rough estimate.

As far as I can tell, they don't clearly state their methods anywhere.

[switch]

My Pilot is my 10th Honda. I had to replace a fuel pump on my 1977 Civic, and I replaced the alternator on my 2001 Accord because it made a slight whining noise that bothered me.

Other than that, it's been oil, brakes, and in the old days, mufflers. Hondas are reliable. Service them properly, and they will not give you grief.

[Don Willems]

Before you say industry leaders in every respect check out the recall rate - Toyota had to recall more cars that it built recently, and Honda is not to far behind.

I read the Saturn Outlook and GMC Acadia bolg and there are many people who used to own Piolt's who now own Outlooks or Acadia's.

[mkaresh]

The 2007 MDX and the 2007 Acadia / Outlook are both among my "unofficial" results in May--the amount of data isn't quite enough to call them "official." Based on this limited amount of data, the MDX looks very solid, while the GM crossovers are looking a bit shaky. Not bad, but probably around the domestic average. More substantial results in August.

Back to the Pilot, I've started collecting data on the 2003, in addition to the 2006 and 2007. Counts for 2004 and 2005 are 18 and 14, respectively. Need 25 to start.

[e2e]

Ill start off by saying that 'm certainly not a statistician, but it's not clear to me how you can draw conclusions about vehicle reliability with sample sizes of only 25 vehicles.

[mkaresh]

The results do start to stabilize with around 25 responses. It's not possible to split hairs at that level, but anything especially reliable or unreliable will show up as such.

But note that 25 is the minimum, not the number I'll eventually have. This is a long-term project, not a one-time survey. And for some models the sample size is already two to three times that.

The panel is growing about ten percent a month, and the sample sizes will be growing accordingly.

[GreenMachine]

Originally posted by Don Willems
Before you say industry leaders in every respect check out the recall rate - Toyota had to recall more cars that it built recently, and Honda is not to far behind.

It's not all about how many recalls a company had, but rather what was recalled. For instance, Honda just recently had a HUGE recall because they a wrong phone number in their manuals. I don't see that recall turning away any customers.

[mkaresh]

My take on the Toyota recall issue:

http://www.truedelta.com/blog/?p=99

I think their rep will only suffer if cars have major problems before 120,000 miles, and the company does nothing to assist people with the problems.

Note how Honda appears to have come through the transmission mess with its rep intact.

[VettePilot]

My wife's '06 Pilot:
1) Roof leaked at 2700 miles -- required new headliner after leak fixed.
2) A/C quit at 6700 miles -- it's not back from Pa yet, so I don't know why.

She is going to drive it from Pa to FL with no A/C, because the dealer told her it was unlikely that it was the fault of the car.
And, she was told it would probably cost her $90 to diagnose it.

My '92 Corvette has the original R-12 charge (never been opened or had any added) that was put in it at the factory after 90K miles and 15 years.

I know Consumer Reports rates the Pilot high.
But, without a doubt, it has been the most unreliable vehicle I have ever owned -- new or used.

[WynnBear]

Purchase 2/21/05. At 7/22/07 closing in on 30,000 miles. Been to the dealer only for scheduled maintenance. Not one thing has ever broken or worn out.

About the only complaint I have is that the front passenger seat belt seems to lock up pretty often requiring the passenger to disengage the belt, wind it back into the holder, then re-extend it and refasten. Haven't mentioned that to the dealer yet, but plan to at the 30,000 mile check that's coming up shortly.

So far the Pilot has been the most reliable vehicle I've ever owned.

[switch]

Originally posted by WynnBear
So far the Pilot has been the most reliable vehicle I've ever owned.

That's a very common comment that you aren't going to get from owners of most other vehicle manufacturers.