So much info here,i love you guys !

[Dac]

Ya,you guys here are amaizing,i'm a DIY and i have been tinkering with my other cars with everything from oil changes to a complete brake job on my BMW (crossdrilled rotors,pads,sensor),oxygen sensor replacement,suspension work,belts change,etc.Now Honda is new to me and i hope that i'll be able to do most of the work myself.I already learned about the oil changes,but my Pilot only has 500 Km (a week old today) and i don't really know when to change the first oil and go synthetic.The 5W20 is odd...,i emailed Mobil 1 and they said that 0W20 is a good alternative to the 5W20 what do you guys think ?,i have been using Mobil products for years and hey always worked for me not to mention that you can buy their stuff averywhere.Another question ...so the engine takes 5 Litres/quarts of oil,right ?,the oil filter is tiny,the other day i changed the oil in a friends Range Rover 4.2 L v8 LWB County and the oil filter in this thing was massive,on the other hand my BMW uses cartrige type element that's only 4 cylinder 318i (5 Litre of oil too) and the cartridge is much biger...
I'm sure this was asked many times,what oil brands do you guys use,what oil filters do you prefer (OEM or aftermarket ?) and air ones too (paper element or gauze or foam ?) ?.I'm happy with the power output ,i just want to use the best "filtration" filter recomendation.
Thank you all

[kettlinton]

welcome to the site, and congrats on the new pilot. i use castol with a honda filter. we need pics of the pilot

[john802]

Since you are in Canada, you have to use the severe maintenance schedule w/c is every 6,000 km or 6 months for change engine oil. Some members uses synthetic oil like mobil1 0w20 or amsoil after the first oil change. The new OEM filter is very small that is why I use purolator pure one or mobil oil filter. Don't forget to replace the aluminum crush washer on the draining bolt . Check this thread for DIY Oil Change!!!

[Dac]

Hello guys,i would like to post pictures of my Pilot but right now i don't own a digital camera (i'll get one soon thou),so you guys agree that 0W20 engine oil is OK ?,you see i don't feel comfortable using such a light oil in the summer,here in central Alberta the summers can be super hot and dry,10W30 always did a fine job in the summer and 5W30 for the winter months (or 0W30).
What do you guys think of Quaker products,the other day i saw that thay make 5W20 synthetic engine oil,is Quaker up there with Mobil 1,Red Line ? (i personally don't think so but i want your opinion anyway...).
Filters,so Purolator Pure One and Mobil 1 make a filter for our rigs ?,years ago i used to use an oil filter made by Hastings and i believe they were using something like densite...or something like that and that's suposed to filter the best without straining the oil pump,etc...anyone ever heard or used their oil filters ?
Thank you guys.

P.S. so it's 5 Litres of oil the Pilot uses .

[Caf2461]

Welcome to the site. I too am a BMW owner and use Mobile 1 oils. Currently I run Mobile 1 5w30 year round in my 2004 Pilot. You might find some useful info here:
5W-20 vs 5W-30

[Bugshu]

Let me first note that Im trying to simplify some exotic concepts for the purpose of this post. If it sounds technical then forgive me and if Im using simplified language that is not dictionary accurate to explain technical concepts then I apologize.

The first number in a motor oil usually followed by a W stands for winter performance of the oil. You dont want your oil to freeze during cold winters and then to try and start your car and watch the engine grind itself to pieces. W in oil terms stands for how cold it gets before your oil freezes. W equals winter.

A 10 winter oil should give good year round performance in warm climates like Florida, Arizona, Texas and Southern California. A 5 winter oil gives good winter performance down to about 10-20 degrees below zero. A zero winter oil is nice to have during extreme conditions.

To oversimplify the matter lets compare different winter ratings.

10W-30 - Good for Summer
5W-30 - Good for most winters
0W-30 - Good for areas of extreme cold and tough winters

Unfortunately you get what is known as viscosity spread. Obviously a O winter oil has more "anti-freeze" components added to it in order to give it better cold start performance in cold temperatures. Adding anti-freeze additives to oil usually thins it out so companies often add viscosity improvers to get the oil back up to rated viscosity levels. These are usually polymers which is a fancy name for plastics. Unfortunately polymers usually break down faster than does oil and your oil shears and degrades and you need to change it and put fresh oil in your engine.

A 0W-30 oil will have more viscosity spread than a 10W-30 oil and what this means is that added anti-freeze to give it good cold start protection and then added back polymers to get it back to its 30 viscosity rating. A 10W-30 oil has less anti-freeze in it so less viscosity index improvers called VII (polymers) are needed.

Oil has two kinds of components and they are basestocks and additives. To simplify matters, 10W-30 has more basestock oil and less additives while 0W-30 oil has less basestock and more additives to give you improved cold start and winter performance.

A multigrade oil is one that performs across a wide variety of temperature ranges while still holding an acceptable oil thickness and film to protect your engine. Phillips came out with the first multigrade oil and they called it TropArctic for the idea you could use oil from the Tropics to the Arctic. Phillips Troparctic is still one of the best oils you can buy and their new GF-4 oil is a fine choice.

A true synthetic is another animal. Mobil 1 is a fine oil and its synthetic base is so good that they dont need to put in additives to enhance performance across temperature ranges. M1 can claim 0 winter performance because the oil is naturally that good. If you need a 0 winter oil then its perhaps the best oil you can buy. Make no mistake that the 0W-20 M1 is a fine oil. It should give better winter performance than most other oils and isnt at all a bad oil to run in the summer. You should be able to go 5000-6000 miles between oil changes with it pretty handily. If I lived in an area with brutal winters where temperatures reached below 0 degrees then M1 0W-20 would be my first choice.

I dont view Quaker state as a true synthetic oil. Its a clean oil thats legal to market as a synthetic oil but I dont think its a synthetic like you would consider M1, Royal Purple, or Redline.

I know some really good oil guys that claim that Redline 5W-20 protects engines as well as 5W-30 oils even though its viscosity is thinner. I could debate the merits of 20 viscosity oil versus 30 but I dont want to at the moment. Perhaps If people ask nicely I will write a post in the future. Generally, Im of the opinion that usually unless you know better that you should stay with the recommendations of the engineers that designed your car. If they have increased oil pressure flowing through your engine then 30 viscosity oil may not be the best idea even though on paper it sounds better.

I know really good oil guys that say the Redline 5W-20 protects engines as well as most 30 viscosity oils. The Royal Purple is a fine choice as well. Nobody needs to feel bad using M1 0W-20.

Most of the Dino oils will do a good job if you dont abuse them. Freshly changed 5W-20 dino will probably protect your Pilot as well as the best 5W-30 dino thats on the backend of its lifespan.

There are many debates in the oil filter world and I dont want to get into that because its late and this post is already long. Some people think that oil flow through the filter is more important than filtration ability. Others think that filtration ability is more important than oil flow. Filters that protect down to .15 microns or .10 microns remove smaller debris however sometimes they lower the oil pressure through the filter and oil filters less frequently. Oil filters have bypass valves and oil that goes through the bypass isnt being filtered at all.

Generally stock Fram filters dont filter as well but usually have fantastic oil flow through the filter. I know some smart people that like Fram filters even though they dont filter well.

The Supertech filter is one that I like and it filters down to about .20 microns while maintaing good flow through it. I think its a nice compromise between the two areas of thought and its sold at Wal-Mart for a good price. Champion labs also makes Bosch Premium and other high end filters and I would recommend any line of filter made by Champion labs. Mobil 1 makes high efficient filters but they are pricey. They are known for outstanding filtration but lowered oil flow through them.

Look at it this way. Water flows through chicken wire faster than through a sponge. The sponge will remove more dirt than the chicken wire. But you arent going to get good water pressure by putting a sponge in front of a stream of water.

For an oil filter to work you need good oil flow through it and also good filtration. Its a mix and match situation with pros and cons either way.

The Honda OEM filter would be a good choice and obviously Honda believes in it. I wouldnt discourage anybody from using a Honda OEM.

I would suggest a supertech oil filter as a good all around choice.

For those that keep their RPMs at a normal rate with oil flow at reasonable levels then some of the high end high efficient filters that filter smaller particles would be a good idea.

There isnt one answer as to who makes the best filter.

As an aside, size isnt always important in filters. A filter that gets most of the oil through it can do just as good of a job as a bigger filter that doesnt allow good oil flow through the filter and ends up in bypass. You want your filter to filter dirt and metal shavings and it takes a great deal of both to fill a filter to the point where it quits catching contaminants. To put it simply, if your engine is throwing off enough metal shavings and dirt to fill a small filter every 3000 - 6000 miles then you have plenty of problems that a bigger filter wouldnt help you overcome.

As an aside, most modern day oils have detergents that clean and suspend sludge in your oil. The filter isnt going to catch most smoke or carbon particles from oil breakdown unless it becomes a problem and starts to clump. Trust the detergents in oil. They are your friend.

Honda's use 5W-20 oil and its a thinner oil and should flow through a filter more freely and easily than the old tech 5W-30 oils. A smaller filter can do its job just fine even though it potentially might eventually clog if you go too long before changing it.

Those that change oil and/or filters regularly shouldnt be concerned for a minute with the small versus big filter debate. If you really need a "bigger" filter there are some on the market you can find if you really look.

Honestly, the need and idea for 3000 mile oil changes is generally because a clean oil filter helps your vehicle more than does fresh oil. A clean cheap oil filter is going to outperform a really good oil filter thats been on your car for 10K miles.

M1 makes a very good filter because they recommend people drive their oil for 5000-10000 miles between changes. If you are a good do it yourself guy then a synthetic oil should go 6000 miles with ease if you change the oil filter at 3000.

For air filters, Id suggest Napa gold. Air filters are pretty cheap in comparison to what they do for your vehicle. You dont want to change them more frequently than suggested nor more infrequently than recommended. A little dirt in an air filter can be a good thing but you dont want to much of a good thing. I would stay away from high end high dollar filters like K & N and the Amsoil sponge filter. A good paper filter changed at recommended intervals is your best bet. But thats my opinion and others opinions may be different.

Ive never seen verifiable proof that "exotic" air filters protect a car better than normal paper filters. There is some talk that they might enhance performance slightly but its really a slight gain.

The absolute best way to extend your vehicle life is to drive normally with conservative acceleration. Once I had a designer of engines tell me that for every 1000 rpm you doubled the stress on the engine. Most engines perform efficiently and safely in the center of their range. If you frequently run your engine to redline conditions on the rpms with jack rabbit starts that you will do far more damage to your engine than going an extra 500 miles between oil changes.

Please maintain your cars and you will extend their life. Driving "normally" is the best friend you have in life extension of a vehicle.

If I had to make a recommendation for most of you then Id suggest M1 0W-20 in the winter and Royal Purple 5W-20 in the summer. Id change oil in March to the summer oil and September for the winter oil. Id recommend Supertech oil filters and Napa Gold Air Filters. You should be safe going 5000-7500 between oil changes and for those of you driving 10,000-15,000 miles per year you should have your bases covered.

These recommendations might not be perfect or ideal for you but they should give you many years of outstanding performance if you drive normally and dont abuse your vehicle.

Each of you should do your own research and make up your own mind as to what you need in maintenance and what works for you in your driving conditions.

Happy Motoring All,



Bugshu

[kettlinton]

great info

[Mainer]

Great info - It deserves it's own thread under maintenance so more can see it. kudos!!!!!

[Caf2461]

Here is the data on Mobil 1 oils:

SAE Grade 0W-30
Viscosity, ASTM D 445
cSt @ 40ºC 56
cSt @ 100ºC 10.3
Viscosity Index, ASTM D 2270 175
Pour Point, ºC, ASTM D 97 -54
Flash Point, ºC, ASTM D 92 234

SAE Grade 5W-30
Viscosity, ASTM D 445
cSt @ 40º C 56
cSt @ 100º C 10
Viscosity Index, ASTM D 2270 167
Pour Point, ºC, ASTM D 97 -45
Flash Point, ºC, ASTM D 92 224

SAE Grade 0W-20
Viscosity, ASTM D 445
cSt @ 40º C 43
cSt @ 100º C 8.4
Viscosity Index, ASTM D 2270 165
Pour Point, ºC, ASTM D 97 -57
Flash Point, ºC, ASTM D 92 232

Redline oil:
SAE Grade 0W-20
Viscosity
cSt @ 40º C 55
cSt @ 100º C 9.1
Viscosity Index, 145
Pour Point, ºC, ASTM D 97 -45
Flash Point, ºC, ASTM D 92 251

Note in some ways the Redline 0W-20 is closer to the Mobil 1 5w-30 than to the Mobil 1 0w-20, which may explain in part why it protects as well as some 30w oils.

[Dac]

Bugshu...you know your stuff and i agree 100% with you.I hte when companies like Amsoil "push" their oils as the best in the industry...,or even K&N air fiters...,my vehicle is brand new (a week old with 650 Km on it) and i will not take a chance with "I'm the best,use me..."
The oils i always used were and will be Mobil 1 (i'll use 0W20 for when it's cold...Canada ! ) but will the break in oil be ok during the winter super cold months ?????,i'm concerned what should i do ?
Air filters,paper element all the way.I want the air filter to filtrate the air like it's suposed to do not let in tonns of air so i can get another lousy horsepower that i can't even notice ,i don't know if Napa here in Canada sells the one you recomend but i'll check it out on monday.
Oil filters...you put it so well,you need flow + decent filtration,so Fram it's not OK ?,I for many years i dealt with German brands of oil filters like Mann,Mahle and US made Bosch.
Rear diff oil...is there a synthetic oil that can be used for the VTM-4 (i think it's called) let's say from M1 instead of Honda's dyno stuff ?
Again Thank you so much for this super valuable info (i'm going to print now for future reference .

[Caf2461]

The original oil with the break-in additive should not be replaced earlier than 7,500 miles for normal conditions and 3,750 miles for severe conditions or 6 months (which ever comes first) per the owner's manual and service technicians. After the first oil change you could if you wanted to, replace the oil sooner than the recommended mileage or time.

Waiting was very hard for me to do, but I did not find any noticable metal particulates in my oil when I changed mine first time at 4K.

Here is an excellent thread on how to change the oil:
Diy Oil Change

Here is a thread on the napa filter:
NAPA Gold Oil Filter for '04 Pilot

Here is a thread on filters:
Oil Filters

I too am interested in a vtm synthetic alternative to honda but til warrantee runs out I am sticking with Honda and changing per frequency in manual (15K). Honda or Purolator air filter, purolator pure one oil filter. Stay away from Fram. If I were in your shoes I would use the 0w20 mobil 1 oil also (at least in the winter). I tow a heavy boat in the summer up PA mountains.

Good luck!

[Dac]

Thank you Caf2461,i apreciate all the info

[BubbaKen]

Dac,

Honda recommends Canadian drivers to follow the extreme driving conditions (it's in the manual) because... well... CANADA FOR THE MOST PART IS FREAKIN' COLD!
(that's not exactly what Honda says, but it's what they mean!)

Bugshu,

Great information.

[Bugshu]

New engines throw off metal shavings as they break in. The best course of action is to change your oil frequently to get the shavings out of your oil and out of your filter. There isnt a car salesman in the world that wants to say congratulations on spending 30K on your new car now you need to change your oil 5 times in the first 5,000 miles for an extra $100 expense.

What Honda and others do is use high levels of anti-wear additives in their "break in" oil.

Typically, anti-wear additives are soft metals that wrap themselves around your engine and the small metal shavings that enter your oil flow. Molybdenum and Zinc are two anti-wear additives frequently added to motor oil for their anti-wear properties. Soft metals have a pillow like effect when small metal shavings detach from new engines as parts start moving against each other for the first time.

Honda factory fill is incredibly high in Moly and what happens is that it puts a soft metal sponge like coating around your engine to protect it from the initial shavings that come loose.

Its fine to change your oil when you feel comfortable doing so rather than the 7500 recommendation that Honda suggests but I would certainly pick a motor oil that has moly anti-wear additives in it to continue the "break in" process and pillow like protection.

Its very important to drive a new engine gently until its broken in.

I would say changing the oil frequently with oil that is rich in anti-wear additives would be a good philosophy to follow.

Personally, I dont want high levels of metal shavings bouncing around my engine even with an oil that has good anti-wear protection in it such as moly or zinc.

In the past Pennzoil has used molydenum in their oil and redline is rich in it. Mobil 1 has some moly if I remember right. Royal Purple has high amounts of moly and almost to the point of extreme saturation.

Amsoil oils are filthy rich in zinc and they cater to the extended oil change market. If you want to go 10,000 - 15,000 miles between oil changes then Amsoil is the one to choose. Amsoil has high zinc as anti-wear protection and a good amount of detergents to protect against sludge.

Please remember that additives are subject to change and I dont have control over this but this information should give you a starting point for research.

If you want to go 7500 miles on the Honda factory fill oil then I would very much suggest you change your filter at the halfway point.

Changing the oil more quickly than Honda recommends should probably be fine if you used a high quality oil with anti-wear properties. Honda probably doesnt want you to change your oil at 3000 miles with a cheap slag oil and then have engine wear shavings bouncing around doing damage without any protection like moly or zinc around to soften the blow. Honda is giving good advice because most people wont read this forum and pick a good replacment oil. For those people the Honda factory fill oil should be left in the engine.

Redline is a very different oil than Mobil 1 or Royal Purple.

M1 and RP use a polyalphaolefin base stock which is a fancy term for a reconditioned oil molecule with a tighter molecular structure. The tighter structure doesnt break down as much or as easily as traditional oils.

Redline uses an ester base. Esters are traditionally used in jet engines and are the only base oil strong enough and tough enough to be used in high temperature jet engines. Its also very expensive.

Redline testing and factory statistics are pretty conservative. Redline doesnt even seek API approval or recognition for their product. It costs a lot of money to test to specifications and "prove" the statistical viability of your oil.

Needless to say an ester based oil is probably the best basestock you will find and there are only 2-3 of them on the market though some high mileage oils such as Valvoline MaxLife use some ester additives to improve the performance of their oils.

I would rather drive gently and use a dino based oil than drive like a madman towing overrated loads through the mojave desert in the middle of summer with an ester oil.

If I did drive my vehicle to extremes then Redline would be my first choice even though its VERY expensive. Some people might be turned off by Redline not being API certified but I dont think its an issue. Its kind of like asking Chevrolet to spend lots of money testing and getting approval for the Corvettes ability to meet minimum speed limit guidelines in all 50 states. If you own a Corvette you are generally confident in its ability to go 40 mph even if Chevrolet hasnt "proven it".

Redline probably wont help you much if you are driving normally because its strong suit is the ability to avoid breakdown under extreme conditions compared with normal motor oil. If you are driving under extreme conditions then you might not want to be using the cheapest oil you can buy.

95% of most users will never need an oil as good as Redline. But its a good choice for those that do. Make no mistake, the RP and M1 oils are fine products.

A good dino will protect most cars driven reasonably and changed frequently.

Happy Piloting All,



Bugshu

[xGS]

If you're uncomfortable waiting up to 7,500 miles for the initial oil change and want to add extra molybdenum and zinc to whatever new oil you use, in order to simulate the properties of the "break-in" oil, one option is to add a container of Valvoline Synpower oil treatment.
[http://www.valvoline.com/pages/produ...asp?product=21].

According to one oil analysis report [http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/...;f=11;t=000224], the Synpower additive has significantly higher levels of both molybdenum and zinc than are found in most motor oils.