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5W-20 vs 5W-30

60K views 53 replies 25 participants last post by  rockman19762001 
#1 ·
As the oil requirements for our Pilots are specified in the manual. (5W-20) Is does not say use 5w-20 if driven in colder climates, not does it give the option of using a thicker oil in warmer conditions. I have read extensively about oil and filters see absolutely no reason for Honda to specify this oil. CAFÉ standards?

However, I had the oil changed at the dealer last week. (Only because I had a free oil change coupon) I did not ask for specific weight oil as it is clear what Honda recommends. Low and behold, the dealer used a 5W-30-bulk oil (of unknown brand).
Now I know there is not a lot of difference in 5W-20 and 5W-30 oils, this brings me back to the original question. Why is Honda hot on 5W-20?

I will use Mobil 1 5W-30. I can find it everywhere.
 
#2 ·
nolan65 said:
As the oil requirements for our Pilots are specified in the manual. (5W-20) Is does not say use 5w-20 if driven in colder climates, not does it give the option of using a thicker oil in warmer conditions. I have read extensively about oil and filters see absolutely no reason for Honda to specify this oil. CAFÉ standards?

However, I had the oil changed at the dealer last week. (Only because I had a free oil change coupon) I did not ask for specific weight oil as it is clear what Honda recommends. Low and behold, the dealer used a 5W-30-bulk oil (of unknown brand).
Now I know there is not a lot of difference in 5W-20 and 5W-30 oils, this brings me back to the original question. Why is Honda hot on 5W-20?

I will use Mobil 1 5W-30. I can find it everywhere.
There has been tons of discussion on this topic.

No one except for the inerr circle of Honda are going to know the REAL reason.

Likely suspects are CAFE requirments, Thinner oil for V-Tec purposes, Less oil "cooking" since thinner oil spends more time cooling in the pan and less time being cooked high up in the engine, less sludge build up, and about 10 other guesses.

Of course for every one of these popsibilities is a offsetting theory such as CAFE ratings, planned obsolecense, CAFE ratings, To force the purchase of Honda oil, CAFE ratings, and did I say CAFE ratings.

Then we get into the who discussion of whether we need to use a difgferent oil at different ambient temperatures since the internal temperature is fairly stable.

Than add the 30 to 60 years of old habbits and old wives tales and who knows what the answer is?
 
#4 ·
When it comes to mechanical inclination, I can safely say that I was blessed with none. I've tried at length to comprehend the motor oil debate and all of the technical language that's used, but when the smoke clears, I'm still going to use what the manual says and more to the point, what the Honda garage uses.

I've been taking my Hondas to the same dealer service center for longer than I can remember. I put my trust that they're going to service my car properly and use the prescribed weight/make of oil. So I suppose I'm saying that I don't care about the oil. They use what they use and that's that. They stand behind all that they do, and what Honda prescribes for the vehicle. All of my previous Hondas lasted for many years, and all by doing it by the "book".
 
#6 ·
#7 ·
I was one of the first to be exposed to 5w-20 oil with my 2001 Escape. I initially used this oil for fear of warrantee problems, but after reading several articles I switched to 5w-30 synthetics.

When this oil came out it was for one reason: To increase CAFE fuel milage figures.

That being said, I do believe that 5w-20 oil will adequately protect your engine under normal circumstances and wear will not be abnormal. I am not about to caution you not to use what Honda recomends......Nobody will.

I have read several articles on the new lighter weight oils. One of which I read in Modern Lubrication Magazine that explained the reason for this oil, tests results, and showed concern about manufacturers jumping on the bandwagon.

Mobile 1 Synthetic 5W-30 weight oil is all that is going in my car for the following reasons:

1) Viscosity of the the Mobile 5w-30 in cold temperatures is better than dino 5w20. The kinematic viscosity (9.7) of M1's 5W30 is so close to the lower side of the range (9.3) that it is very close to a 5w20 oil to begin with.

2) I am not on the CAFE bandwagon. Protection under towing conditions and performance driving is important for me.

3) What is the difference between the tolerances or design of the earlier Honda v-6's that required 5w-30 and this motor that now require 5w-20? I am new to Honda. They did the same thing with my Escape when they put this engine in a SUV.

4) I am not going to trade my vehicle in any time within the first 10 years or 150,000 miles so prolonging life (Mobile 1 every 5K) is an important cost of ownership for me.

Being new to this forum I do not know if this article has been posted but it may be helpful.

http://www.performanceoiltechnology.com/ford5w20.htm
 
#8 ·
ok, i've read this thread....but here's the thing:
if you look on the mobil 1 bottles, it's the 0w20 weight that says "recommended for Ford and Honda engines with 5w20"

so, what does anyone know about 0w20? why go to the 5w30?
 
#9 ·
Mobile 1 is not available in 5w-20 (only 0w-20), and this is their way of telling the consumer that this is the oil to use for factory recommended 5w - 20 applications.

Like I said earlier I do believe that any 0 or 5w-20 will adequately protect your engine. Mobile is able to achieve great oils like 0w-40 by formulating them in raw synthetic form. Even their 0w-20 oil protects well against thermal breakdown and will not carmelize when burnt at the temperatures most dino oils will.

Before the government fuel gods imposed thier pressure, all cars came with a chart for various recommended viscosities dependant on environment and use. Unlike some petroleum based oils, viscosity is not as variable with temperature, and for all but the coldest environments 5w-30 will flow and protect. The shear barrier that motoroil provides between metal parts is what prevents them from wearing. I personally think under hard use (in the long haul) the 5w30 provides a better barrier against wear, providing better cling to these metal parts.
 
#10 ·
When I took my 04' EX in for its first oil change, I asked the service manager to us a full synthetic 10w-30.
He told me that the only oil they have is a standard 10w-30, and that they put it in all Hondas that come in for oil change.

Well, I now go to a quick sevice oil place and get a full synthetic 5w-20 (thats what they recommend and also recommended by Honda).
I might switch to a 5w-30 synthetic for the hot summers down here.
 
#14 ·
nolan65 said:
Interesting read...
Yes. it spells out in no uncertain terms that the dealerships are supposed to be putting in 5w-20 into customres vehicles. Meanwhile when i goto honda for oil changes, all they have is 5w-30 oil?? Looks like in 2004 they have to prove to the board that they are using 5w-20 in oil changes with receipts.
 
#15 ·
Dealer is using 5w30, and when I insisted on 5w20 he charged me extra $7.. They were trying to convince me that there is no real differences between 5w20 and 5w30 , and they said that 5w30 actually better.
Using 5w30 won't shorten engine life?
 
#16 ·
krisap said:
Using 5w30 won't shorten engine life?
We have no data, but common sense would indicate it would probably be slightly better for your engine to use 5W30.

As others have pointed out, there is considerable evidence that the main motivation behind 5W20 is to raise fuel economy slightly at the expense of slightly less engine protection for hot/high-load conditions, which probably translates to somewhat shorter engine life, especially for engines that are pushed hard. This is a tradeoff Honda is making, probably to get their CAFE averages up while still providing "acceptable" engine life. Another motivation is that they may sell some of their more expensive 5W20 oil since it's not readily available.

Since 5W30 is acceptable in nearly all climates, we can make the tradeoff back towards better engine protection and longer engine life if we choose. The fact that 5W30 is so much easier to find and cheaper makes it a slam dunk for most drivers.

In any event, it's probably not worth sweating about much. There's just not that much differrence and either oil will work fine. And I wouldn't carry this logic beyond to start running 5W40 or 5W50 which have a very high percentage of viscosity improvers to get thse super wide ranges. 5W30 is nice sweet spot - readily available everywhere at low cost and approved by Honda. That's why dealers often use it rather than the "recommended" 5W20.

- Mark
 
#17 ·
krisap said:
Dealer is using 5w30, and when I insisted on 5w20 he charged me extra $7.. They were trying to convince me that there is no real differences between 5w20 and 5w30 , and they said that 5w30 actually better.
Using 5w30 won't shorten engine life?
How nice of them.... your Honda would never notice the difference between the two. The 5 30 would be good for hotter weather, but really it would not matter a whole lot. If you live in a cold area the fact that its 5 w is really what Honda is after, so its thinner and hops around more when you first start your motor. I would not be too concerned either way.

Its sounds like they get 5w 30 in bulk and wanted to pass on the 5x 20 in a bottle cost to you.. strange as Honda is the one that pushes the 5w 20 so one would think all the authorized Honda dealers would use that by default.
 
#18 ·
CMasten said:


How nice of them.... your Honda would never notice the difference between the two. The 5 30 would be good for hotter weather, but really it would not matter a whole lot. If you live in a cold area the fact that its 5 w is really what Honda is after, so its thinner and hops around more when you first start your motor. I would not be too concerned either way.

Its sounds like they get 5w 30 in bulk and wanted to pass on the 5x 20 in a bottle cost to you.. strange as Honda is the one that pushes the 5w 20 so one would think all the authorized Honda dealers would use that by default.
I think you may be mistaken.

The 5W is only important for the few minuets till the engine has warmed up (especially in cold weather).

The second number is the viscosity of interest art normal running temperatures (no matter what the ambient temperature is).
 
#21 ·
Could be worse. VW has been recommending 5W-40 that complies with VW spec 502.00 (this is KEY) for all VW Passats with gasoline engines sold in the USA. The only oils that comply with this spec happen to be synthetics. Dealerships have been ignoring this and using 5W-30 dino. Now there's a mini-epidemic of sludged 1.8T engines that require major surgery to unclog the oil sump (the pan won't come down without unbolting the engine off the subframe). VW extened the warranty on these engines as long as you saved all your reciepts. TSB was issued in late '04 advising dealers to use ONLY 502.00 oils on the approved list, and a new oil filter with a larger capacity. There's reports of dealers STILL using 5W-30 dino. :3:

The moral of this story:

The guys in the white lab coats (the Germans in the case of my VW, the Japanese in the case of my Honda) know what they're doing. If they say to use 5W-20, I'll use that unless I have overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

If your dealership cannot follow the recommended oil specs, then they simply cannot be trusted. The guy with the vocational training getting paid $8/hr doesn't know more than the engineers who did the actual testing and design.

This is the inside of the oil pan on my '03 Passat with 70,000 miles (replaced because I bottomed out and cracked it) after changing my oil and filter every 5000 miles and using NOTHING but the recommended Mobil 1 0W-40 (it's on the approved list)



And here's the bottom end of the engine, including the oil pump:


You can't go wrong following the manufacturer's recommendations for weight, and meeting or exceeding the specifications for the oil itself, and following or besting the oil change intervals.
 
#22 ·
There's a big difference between putting conventional oil in a turbo engine where synthetic is required by spec vs. substituting a slightly different but still approved viscosity rating for the recommended viscosity rating in a lightly-stressed non-turbo motor like our Pilot's.

And I can assure you that the guys in white lab coats did not write the owner's manuals for the Pilot - accountants and marketers did who are trying to balance a whole bunch of economic factors that have nothing to do with engineering: warranty costs, CAFE, dealer margins, aftermarket sales oppoortunities, etc.

But as many of us have said, if putting the 5W-20 in there helps you sleep better at night, go for it. All I know about oil is that we worry about it more than is justified. Put a quality oil of approximately the right viscosity in there and change it in a reasonable time and the chances of any lubrication-related problem are virtually nil.

- Mark
 
#23 ·
Several times over the last 4 years I've asked for someone among us who has experienced an oil related engine failure to step forward. No one has. When someone does, I'll re-think my approach to follow the manufacturer's recommendation.
 
#24 ·
krisap said:
Dealer is using 5w30, and when I insisted on 5w20 he charged me extra $7.. They were trying to convince me that there is no real differences between 5w20 and 5w30 , and they said that 5w30 actually better.
Using 5w30 won't shorten engine life?
You can not trust dealers.Two Honda dealers in my area recommend I flush my transmission,I called Honda and they do not recommend it.I will stick with Honda recommendation 5w20.
 
#25 ·
Caf2461 said:
Mobile 1 is not available in 5w-20 (only 0w-20), and this is their way of telling the consumer that this is the oil to use for factory recommended 5w - 20 applications.

Mobile 1 DOES come in a 5w20 AND I've seen it in a 0W20. I've got 5 quarts of 5w20 sitting on the shelf waiting for Pilot to turn 30k miles. Actually I was supprised to see the 0w20 at the store as I had read somewhere that it had been replaced by 5w20.
 
#26 ·
Hmmm, isn't this debate similar to what was going on years ago when 5W-30 first became the recommended oil from auto manufacturers?
 
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