How To Know When Its time TO Redo Brakes?

[Sean Price]

I have a 2005 Honda Pilot with 120k miles on it.. I've had it since 48k miles!!

I haven't really done anything except change the oil on it every 3-4 months..

I am about to embark on a 3000 mile road trip and I am starting to get worried since the Pilot at 120k is probably NOT the same as when it was at 48,000 Honda CERTIFIED vehicle..

I am starting to notice that I have to press harder and LONGER on the brakes now, it almost feels like I hitting the floor sometimes... NO vibration/shaking tho..

1. So what should I be looking for when I check out the brakes tomorrow morning?


I will be hitting up Dallas/Ft Worth and was hoping to take advantage of the "lower cost of living down south" and have some maintenance done by a trusted mechanic at a cheaper price than what Chicago offers..


2. I plan on calling some places here tomorrow to get a rough idea.. but how much should I expect a brake job to cost? Assuming all 4 are to be replaced? What can I expect?

3. Anything else I should be checking out before we leave?



thanks in advance!


oNe


p.s. What and HOW would I strap a double baby stroller to the top of it? It has those 2 bars on the roof that are verticale(from front to back) but nothing else or in between them.. Does that allow me to throw stuff up there?

[cofetym]

You are definitely due and also need a major tune up 105,000 or 7 years so check your manual.

[cofetym]

How To Check Your Brakes and Do A Brake Job Disc Brakes 101 1AAuto.com - YouTube

How To Check Your Brakes and Do A Brake Job Disc Brakes 101 1AAuto.com - YouTube

[jl_ss]

And that 105K mile tune-up includes a timing belt change. If you haven't done anything but oil changes, then you missed transmission oil and VTM fluid changes. Check out the maintenance section of your owners manual.

[TomStromie]

If you're paying someone else, expect to part with about $2,000. And I would part with that money soon if I were you.

$800 Timing belt, water pump, tensioner, serpentine belt, and coolant flush
Do not delay: broken timing belt = broken engine

$800 Brake pads and rotors installed
Big safety issue here: bad brakes = broken you

$200 Transmission and VTM fluid change
Simple to do, but very important to use correct fluids

These are guesses, but I doubt if I'm too far off.

[ltp646]

Originally Posted by Sean Price

p.s. What and HOW would I strap a double baby stroller to the top of it? It has those 2 bars on the roof that are verticale(from front to back) but nothing else or in between them.. Does that allow me to throw stuff up there?

You will need to have the cross bars to support the baby stroller and to tie it down. If you place the stroller directly onto the roof, it will scrach the paint and probably put a few dents on the roof metal skin.

As other posts noted, you are due for some major maintenance items

[Sean Price]

$2000!!?? PLEASE, PLEASE tell me your joking..

I came seeking advise on how to verify if my brakes need work done and now I'm spending $2000??

Would it be safe to assume the $2000 quote is from a dealer? (this would give me hope that going non-dealership would be cheaper)


but seriously NOW you have me scared.. I leave in 3 days.. How, what, or where is this timing belt you speak of? How would I check it?

fudge.. all I can say is FUDGE..

oNe

[Yahooligan]

Originally Posted by Sean Price

$2000!!?? PLEASE, PLEASE tell me your joking..

I came seeking advise on how to verify if my brakes need work done and now I'm spending $2000??

Folks are just trying to help you out since it appears you have a habit of waiting until things stop working right before doing something. Preventative maintenance will save you money in the long run, regular oil and filter changes are only part of what you should have done by this point.

Would it be safe to assume the $2000 quote is from a dealer? (this would give me hope that going non-dealership would be cheaper)

$800 for the timing belt service is about right. $800 for brakes is at the high end for pads and rotors, but it really depends on WHY you have poor stopping power now. If it's not the pads and is something with the brake hydraulics then it could very well be more than $800. If it's just pads and you want someone to do the work then I'd say $200-$400 for parts and labor. Add on $200-$400 if you need rotors.

but seriously NOW you have me scared.. I leave in 3 days.. How, what, or where is this timing belt you speak of? How would I check it?

fudge.. all I can say is FUDGE..

oNe

There is no checking it, it's a time OR mileage preventative maintenance part. The timing belt is what connects the camshafts to the crankshaft to operate the intake and exhaust valves as well as turn the water pump. A visual inspection of a timing belt is worthless as often times the belt will show no signs of impending doom before teeth get sheared off or the belt itself breaks, resulting in bent valves and damaged pistons. $800 now or a new engine later...which would you prefer?

Your brake fluid should also be flushed every 2 years, if this isn't done then moisture and copper (from the ABS actuator) will start attacking other parts of your braking system.

Do yourself a favor and read the maintenance schedule that came with your Pilot and have everything done that you've skipped until this point. If you don't then pretty soon all you'll have is a huge paperweight that requires multiple thousands of dollars to repair. Had you kept up on the maintenance then these bills would be easier to swallow as they wouldn't all be piled on at once, instead they would be spread out at various intervals.

Sorry if this scares you, but maybe that's what you needed to have happen so that you'd understand proper maintenance is they key to making a vehicle last. Waiting until there's a problem hurts your vehicle, its resale value, and your wallet more than if you did everything according to schedule.

[Onyx2082]

No joke about the importance of timing belt replacement. Been there, made that mistake. $800 is a drop in the bucket when you weigh it against the lost time and money that comes from a full engine replacement. Be glad you get 105,000 miles before you have to do it for a Pilot. I had a Mitsubishi Eclipse that needed it every 60,000.

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[Onyx2082]

Originally Posted by Yahooligan

Folks are just trying to help you out since it appears you have a habit of waiting until things stop working right before doing something. Preventative maintenance will save you money in the long run, regular oil and filter changes are only part of what you should have done by this point.



$800 for the timing belt service is about right. $800 for brakes is at the high end for pads and rotors, but it really depends on WHY you have poor stopping power now. If it's not the pads and is something with the brake hydraulics then it could very well be more than $800. If it's just pads and you want someone to do the work then I'd say $200-$400 for parts and labor. Add on $200-$400 if you need rotors.



There is no checking it, it's a time OR mileage preventative maintenance part. The timing belt is what connects the camshafts to the crankshaft to operate the intake and exhaust valves as well as turn the water pump. A visual inspection of a timing belt is worthless as often times the belt will show no signs of impending doom before teeth get sheared off or the belt itself breaks, resulting in bent valves and damaged pistons. $800 now or a new engine later...which would you prefer?

Your brake fluid should also be flushed every 2 years, if this isn't done then moisture and copper (from the ABS actuator) will start attacking other parts of your braking system.

Do yourself a favor and read the maintenance schedule that came with your Pilot and have everything done that you've skipped until this point. If you don't then pretty soon all you'll have is a huge paperweight that requires multiple thousands of dollars to repair. Had you kept up on the maintenance then these bills would be easier to swallow as they wouldn't all be piled on at once, instead they would be spread out at various intervals.

Sorry if this scares you, but maybe that's what you needed to have happen so that you'd understand proper maintenance is they key to making a vehicle last. Waiting until there's a problem hurts your vehicle, its resale value, and your wallet more than if you did everything according to schedule.

About 10 years ago, when labor was closer to $50 an hour, and with a used engine, it cost me about $3,000 in parts and labor to replace the engine in my Eclipse. I don't know what that would translate to today and with a Pilot, but you are lucky you have made it this far, and I recommend taking Yahooligans (sp?) Advise. It is really good advise.

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[Sean Price]

au contraire mon frere, I am actually listening with both ears, 110%, sorry if I gave the impression otherwise.. It was probably just the shock of, coming on here looking for some advise on a brake change and thinking $100-$200 tops and now I'm spending $2000... so yeah it was an eye opener.. phew-ee!!

jus some quick follow up questions..


1. If I just tell the dealer that I need the timing belt replaced, will THEY KNOW what all it entails, ie. Timing belt, water pump, tensioner, serpentine belt, and coolant flush....

in other words will they know all that or do I need to write it down and show them all that? i.e. or take my phone in and show them this post?

Do i just tell them I need the 105K maintenance and that should cover it?


2. Having had the Pilot since 48K and never having touched the brakes, so its a for sure,, 100% that I need new brakes, INCLUDING NEW rotors?, right?


3. What are the chances of having my dealer hook up a discount if I them do all the work?


I am for sure having the timing belt stuff done today or tomorrow.. jus gonna be stretched a bit thin on the cash flow for the other stuff.. particularly with this trips expenses and not having had a job for 3 months.. hoping to have the rest done in TX..


thanks again and let me know what you think!!


oNe


*** P.S. ***

Originally Posted by TomStromie

If you're paying someone else, expect to part with about $2,000. And I would part with that money soon if I were you.

$800 Timing belt, water pump, tensioner, serpentine belt, and coolant flush
Do not delay: broken timing belt = broken engine

$800 Brake pads and rotors installed
Big safety issue here: bad brakes = broken you

$200 Transmission and VTM fluid change
Simple to do, but very important to use correct fluids

SIMPLE to do? PlEASE DO TELL!!! could a laymen such as myself do this? what do you think in your best estimate it would run me? Transmission and VTM change particularly...

[94eg!]

Originally Posted by Sean Price

1. If I just tell the dealer that I need the timing belt replaced, will THEY KNOW what all it entails, ie. Timing belt, water pump, tensioner, serpentine belt, and coolant flush....in other words will they know all that or do I need to write it down and show them all that? i.e. or take my phone in and show them this post? Do i just tell them I need the 105K maintenance and that should cover it?


2. Having had the Pilot since 48K and never having touched the brakes, so its a for sure,, 100% that I need new brakes, INCLUDING NEW rotors?, right?


3. What are the chances of having my dealer hook up a discount if I them do all the work?


4. SIMPLE to do? PlEASE DO TELL!!! could a laymen such as myself do this? what do you think in your best estimate it would run me? Transmission and VTM change particularly...

1- Yes the dealer knows what a 105 service entails. Though be aware they will also replace your spark plugs. These cost a lot from the dealer ($16 each + install). You can get the exact same NGK plugs (called Laser Platinum or Laser Iridium) from AdvancedAutoParts.com for a lot less with coupon code CCABIN. Should cost around $45 shipped for all 6. For the timing belt, you can get a Gates Timing-belt/water-pump kit for ~$170 shipped from RockAuto.com.. You will also need 2-gallons of Honda's blue Type-2 coolant ($35), and a new pair of serpentine belts (Gates brand from RockAuto.com too ~$20). Then pay an independent shop ~$400 to install it all. This will save you ~$500 overall

2- Rotors may still be good if your not having any braking vibration problems. The OEM pads are very easy on the rotors. As long as rotors still measure thicker than the minimum thickness, I would re-use them. And don't let them machine your old rotors. Even though machining makes them perfectly smooth, it also makes them thinner which reduces their life and increases the likelihood of vibration problems later on down the road. If they are re-using the old rotors, insist on no-machining with only a hard bed-in of the new pads. The new pads will then conform to the shape of the old rotors and you will be good for another 100k miles.

3- 0%

4- For transmission and VTM fluids, they are simple drain & fill process. Remove drain bolt, drain, reinstall drain bolt with new crush-washer, remove fill bolt, fill, reinstall fill bolt with new crush washer. As long as you know how to use a breaker bar (these bolts are very hard to remove), this should be easy for you. 4 quarts of Honda ATF $26 and 1 gallon of VTM 4 fluid $25. The VTM rear-diff is tricky to fill cause you need a hand pump to push the fluid up into the fill hole. These only cost a couple dollars at the auto parts store. The transmission is tricky to fill cause you either have to fill slowly through the tiny dip-stick hole, or remove the intake to get to the larger fill-hole. Again an independent shop will save you money

[Sean Price]

94eg, THAnK you, your responses are EXACTLY what I was looking for!! really appreciated!


1. I know the dealer knows what the 105k service is, what I mean was would THEy or an independent shop know to do all, when I say change the timing belt, ie. would they know to replace the water pump and or other stuff too?

long story short I'm afraid a shop won't do it correctly or completely as a dealer would..

2. so best to stick to OEM parts.. probably best to buy them directly from the dealer I'm guessin... or online? how and where?

3. D'oH!!!

4. d@m, shop v/s dealer again..

again, THANKS for the info and reply, MUCH appreciated..

I leave for my 1100 mile road trip in 3 days.. so it looks like I don't really have much of a choice but to have the dealer do the work..

$500 more tho.. oh what it would be to save that $$, but I guess that extra $500 pays for peace of mind knowing it was done "right" by the dealor.. also I guess consolation for having it done tomorrow.. and then being able to leave as planned in 3 days..


*sigh*, next vehicle I will pay more attention...

thanks again!


oNe

[94eg!]

1- They will do the belts, coolant & spark plugs. Generally shops & dealers only replace the timing belt tensioner, belt bearings, and/or water pump if they detect wear or leakage during inspection (during the teardown). When you get your estimate before hand, be sure to ask if these things are included. That way there won't be any surprises if they have to replace these additional parts. Also it gives you the opportunity to request those items be replaced if that's your desire.

3- The trick is that Honda doesn't make all their own parts. They come from outside suppliers. Therefore you can buy the same EXACT parts in non-honda boxes for at least half the price. Misuboshi or Gates/Unitta make OEM Honda timing belts. Koyo makes all the tensioner bearings. Aisin makes the hydraulic belt tensioners. Yamada makes all Honda water pumps. NGK makes all the Honda spark plugs. This is why I recommended the aftermarket brands in my previous post. I even included the best places to purchase them (where I bought mine from after extensive internet research).

If your not a DIY type, and you don't trust the local shop to do the work, then the dealer IS your best bet. You will pay a bit more (cause they won't let you bring in aftermarket parts), but could be worth it to you just for the peace of mind.

[xGS]

It's been posted before, but to save money on dealer performed maintenance, check their websites for service specials and coupons.

An often cited example is Hamilton Honda in NJ, who often runs a timing belt+water pump replacement special for under $500: Honda Service Specials Available at Hamilton Honda

Likewise there are discounts to be found for transmission service, VTM-4 service and so on.
Also, coupons for a percentage discount off a complete service bill.
Some dealers will match other dealers special offers.