which guide to follow: 3K miles, 3 months or oil indicator

[Toch17]

There is a reason some people do not get their parts from the stealership, they're expensive. Hence they go for after market parts (i.e. Fram or Purolator). My point was not all encompassing, just that some people use better oil but disregard using a better filter.

[onewheat]

Originally Posted by N_Jay

The standard oil filter is rated for TWO oil changes by Honda.
So if oil changes ate 5000 to 10000 miles, the filter is good for 10000 to 20000 miles.

Honda has allowed every other oil change filter replacements fro MANY years now.

Really? After 5 years of working in a Honda dealership this is the FIRST time I have ever heard that. Personally, I run Mobil 1 in all of my vehicles and change the oil every 5000 miles. I don't care what the MM says is remaining. I know what engine internals look like on engines where people skimp on oil changes. I used to change my Accord every 2k when using the dealer bulk oil - now I'm 5k on Mobil 1 - always have had Honda filters. My engine looks brand new on the inside with 120k on it. Oil changes are cheap - I keep my vehicles for a long time. Just my $0.02 though.

[N_Jay]

Originally Posted by onewheat

Really? After 5 years of working in a Honda dealership this is the FIRST time I have ever heard that.

Look at the service table in any pre-MM Honda.

Originally Posted by onewheat

Personally, I run Mobil 1 in all of my vehicles and change the oil every 5000 miles. I don't care what the MM says is remaining. I know what engine internals look like on engines where people skimp on oil changes. I used to change my Accord every 2k when using the dealer bulk oil - now I'm 5k on Mobil 1 - always have had Honda filters. My engine looks brand new on the inside with 120k on it. Oil changes are cheap - I keep my vehicles for a long time. Just my $0.02 though.

Personally, I have 176K miles on my standard maintenance Pilot and 125K miles on my standard maintenance CRV and neither is showing any signs of oil neglect.

I keep my cars a long time, and have not had any oil related issues in about 40 years.

[94eg!]

Originally Posted by onewheat

Really? After 5 years of working in a Honda dealership this is the FIRST time I have ever heard that.

That's because the dealerships are there to SELL SELL SELL! You guys are not engineers, you are there to make the owner money.

That info has been in EVERY Honda owners manual since the beginning of time. And the fact that you've never heard it is just proof positive how disconnected the dealers are from their own product. This is the root of why people call it the "Stealership". And the fact you guys use bulk oil rather than Honda brand oil should be considered false advertising. I'm not coming down on you, just the industry in general. Sorry if I sound like an @$$hole...I am very passionate about this subject.

An "A" service is just to replace the oil. A "B" service replaces the oil AND filter: http://hondapilot.bkwon.net/manual/2003/Images/p275.jpg



Now that all being said, I don't know anybody that just replaces oil without replacing the filter. Especially that junky Honda/Fram A02 filter all the dealers try to sell now. But if the Honda engineers claim it's good for 15k miles, who are we to argue.

[denpilot]

Originally Posted by N_Jay

The standard oil filter is rated for TWO oil changes by Honda.
So if oil changes ate 5000 to 10000 miles, the filter is good for 10000 to 20000 miles.

Honda has allowed every other oil change filter replacements fro MANY years now.

Not sure where you got the idea a regular filter is only rated for 3000 miles.

Wix sales reps actually made a big campaign about their different grades of filters being rated for different mileages.

They wanted salespeople to believe the basic "silver" filter was only good for 3,000 - the gold good for 5,000 - etc etc. But if you call Affina and get ahold of technical support, they will assure you this is not the case. Even their basic oil filters are required to meet oem requirements.

The oil monitoring system calculates the number of times the car has been started, the ambient temperature, the amount of time the engine is running, the engine temperature, the demand on the engine.

The two biggest impacts to the oil is starting, condensation burn off, and high demand.

When the engine first starts, an excessive amount of contaminates are not immediately going through the oil filter. If you start a car 1000 times - only letting it run for 30 seconds at a time - the oil percentage will go down quickly as the computer thinks there is a lot of contamination being suspended in the oil, even though the car did no driving and the engine did very little running.

Condensation naturally occurs when the engine is cooling down after being run. But it can also happen while the car sits for extended periods of time of no use ( warm of the day, cold of the night ). Condensation (moisture) in the oil system is a killer to everything it touches. If the engine gets to full operating temperature in a short period of time, the computer subtracts less percentage from the oil monitor. if the engine takes an excessive amount of time to get to operating temperature ( think snow days, cold 4am drives to the airport, etc ), then the computer subtracts more percentage from the oil monitor.

Condensation/moisture is also a huge issue when you get to the 3,000-5,000 mile range. The additives begin to rapidly deplete at this mileage range. The additives help suspend contaminates and moisture. The less effective the additives are, the more wear and damage that occurs to your engine.

I have talked with engineers at Shell and engineers at Valvoline. Both companies fully stand behind the lubrication ability of their oils for the full mileage of an oil monitoring system ( More specifically, they guarantee that the oil still has it's required lubrication abilities up to 10,000 miles ). It is their additives that they cannot tell me last that long.

And engine demand / load - this is the final factor. If you are red-lining your car off the line all the time, the computer knows this. It knows the engine temperature has spikes, it knows there is a lot more peak demand placed on the system and this incurs extra sheering on the oil. More "high performance" type driving = more percentage subtracted from the oil monitoring system.

It all comes down to some basics. If you live in a climate where there is very little temperature change throughout the day, and you do very little "performance" driving - use a good name brand petroleum based oil, and change it every 5,000 miles. If you live in a climate where it snows, has 20-30 degree temperature changes daily, or you're driving in 100+ degree desert areas - use a good name brand petroleum based oil, and change it every 3,500 miles. If, on the other hand, you want to keep your engine in pristine condition as long as humanly possible, use a good name brand synthetic oil, and change it every 4,000-5,000 miles depending on the severity of the weather and the extremity of your driving style.