Question about rear parking brakes.

[ZoneIII]

I am about to do a brake job on my 2004 Honda Pilot and I was going to order the parts when I decided to look up something in these forums first. In this link

DIY Brake Job

the certified Honda mechanic who did an excellent write-up of the procedure mentions that the parking brakes (drum) assists in normal braking. That came as a surprise to me because I had assumed that the parking brakes were only used as parking brakes but this is the first car I have had with the disc/drum setup so I wasn't sure. So I looked it up in my Honda factory service manual and I see that there is no wheel cylinder or other way (that I can see) that the parking brakes could be activated with anything but the parking brake pedal. In other words, from what I can see, the drum parking brake is only used as a parking brake. But maybe I'm missing something. If they are somehow activated to assist in normal braking as the above thread says, I want to order new shoes with the rest of my order. I don't want to disassemble them to find out and then possibly have to find shoes because I have to get the job done quickly. If they do somehow assist in normal braking, I will just go ahead and order new shoes and spring kits.

So, my question is, do the parking brakes really assist in normal braking or do they only act as parking brakes?

Oh! I just thought of one other question that I may as well ask here: My parts supplier lists vented and unvented rear rotors for my 2004 Honda Pilot and also rotors with diameters of 12.33" and 11.81"(???). To measure the rotors accurately and to see if they are vented, I would have to remove the wheel - which is no big problem but is raining hard here today and I would like to order the parts today so I would have them this weekend. They do appear to be over 12" but it impossible to measure them accurately with the wheel on. If someone here knows if they are vented or non-vented and what diameter they should be, that would save me the trouble and I could order the parts today, assuming those things are standardized. The weird thing is that some of the rotors list their diameter in the parts list and some don't. My rotors appear to be vented but I really can't tell for sure with the wheel on due to the shield that surrounds the rotors.

Thanks

[mclairmo]

I cannot see how the parking brake would assist in normal braking and if it did, it would be quickly destroyed as they are far too small to help any with stopping the vehicle.

[ZoneIII]

Mcclairmo: That's my thoughts as well. I think the post I linked in my original message may have just been in error about that but I asked because it was posted by a certified Honda mechanic so I thought I might be missing something.

[mclairmo]

I do not have a lot of faith in certified mechanics in general after experiencing some crappy and unsafe work on my vehicles. A certified mechanic stripped out my diff drain plug on my Pilot. A certified mechanic told me my Pilot's first diff fluid change should be at 30,000 miles not 15,000 miles. A certified mechanic tried to lift my Pilot by its weak aftermarket nerf bars instead of the frame or other intended lift point. A certified mechanic failed to find a very loud and annoying interior rattle (after many attempts) that I still have to this day.

[ZoneIII]

mcclairmo: I totally agree with you and your experiences are consistent with mine. In fact, the incompetence of some so-called experts is why I do my own work and that's why I adjust my own valves as I mentioned in another thread that you responded to. I find it surprising that, in the other thread, you recommend paying "experts" do to a job and then, in this thread, making it clear that you don't trust their work. I don't trust them either, based on experience, and that's why I do my own work. Besides, I'm good at it and have over 45 years of experience doing it, and I actually enjoy doing the work.... well, usually! LOL

With rare exeptions, I have been doing virtually all my work on my cars since the 1960s. Those exceptions usually involve sub-zero weather and I almost always regret having someone else do the work when I do. At one time, we had a family owned shop in town that was honest and did fine work. Unfortunately, when the father retired and the son took over, the business went downhill. The son grossly overcharges, does bad work, and doesn't stand behind it. Several years ago, I needed to replace a ball-joint but the temperatures were well below zero. Reluctantly, I tried another shop in town and they charged me almost $900 to replace the ball joint and do the alignment! I could have replaced the joint in an hour and $12 for the part and then had it aligned for about $40. On those rare occasions when I have had someone else do the work, I have almost always been either ripped off or the job has been done poorly, or (usually) both. That's why I do my own work and that's why I asked about how to access the rear bank of valves in another thread.

Anyway, back to the original questions in this thread: We are supposed to get a break in the rain tomorrow and, if we do, I'm going to remove the rear wheel, measure the rotor and then remove it to inspect the parking brake shoes to see what I will need. Then I'll order the parts and do the job next weekend. I was just hoping to get an answer to my questions today so I could order the parts today and do the job this weekend.

BTW, the differential fluid change schedule is in your owners manual so you don't need the advice of a certified mechanic for that. (I changed mine at 15,000, 30,000, and every 30,000 thereafter.) However, I think you be fine with the first change being at 30,000.) The other problems you have had seem to indicate that you don't work on your own cars since they are very basic things. If that is the case and since you don't have faith in certified mechanics, having work done must be a real pain for you when you have to have people work on your cars that you don't trust. Again, that's one of the reasons I do my own work.

[rgillie66]

Originally Posted by ZoneIII

Oh! I just thought of one other question that I may as well ask here: My parts supplier lists vented and unvented rear rotors for my 2004 Honda Pilot and also rotors with diameters of 12.33" and 11.81"(???).

Thanks

Find a different parts supplier. The rear rotors on your Pilot are 12.33 and solid (non-vented). There are no options.

[ZoneIII]

Originally Posted by rgillie66

Find a different parts supplier. The rear rotors on your Pilot are 12.33 and solid (non-vented). There are no options.

Thanks, rgillie! It appeared to be 12.33 to me too just by looking but it is difficult to be sure when sighting through the wheel.

There's no need to get a different parts supplier, though. It could be that the smaller rotors are for special purposes because the supplier lists rotors for racing, etc, including drilled and grooved rotors and such. The supplier offers a wide range of parts at different quality levels. They just happen to list a couple rotors that are a smaller diameter and I assume those are for special purposes, that's all. They probably list up to two dozen rotors for my Pilot. I normally go with factory parts for things like this - with my Pilot, anyway - but I have found that my suppliers high-end parts are actually better than OEM and the price is better. I can get super-premium grades for less than Honda's parts. They carry grades from low to premium and I always get the premium grades. In any case, just because they list some non-standard rotors (obviously for special purposes), is no reason to drop a good parts supplier that I have been so happy with for years.

Thanks for your reply. I appreciate it. I'm still going to take off the rear rotors before ordering parts, though, because I want to check the condition of the parking brakes and order them too if necessary. I hate getting into a job and finding that I need something else and then have to take it apart again later. This will be a complete brake including new calipers, pads, and rotors all the way around.

Thanks again!

Tom

[mclairmo]

ZoneIII, I did not work on my Pilot while it was under warranty because if anything goes wrong the dealer always blames me and refuses to help. i don't feel like going to war with Honda. I pay them to take the risk of failure, like insurance. I now do most everything myself since I have 112,000 miles. With valves, I am no expert and if you can find a good dealership I think they can do it fine, maybe even better than me and likely better than most backyard mechanics. I've replaced heads before and adjusted valves many times but I never seem to get it just right, especially the overhead variety. Adjusting the valves on my 67 Camaro 396 and 68 Chevy Pickup 350 (and getting it right) is much easier for me than today's overhead valve designs. My 2 yr son helped me lap valves once on my 93 Toyota Truck with the 22RE 4 banger. He enjoyed spinning the valves in their valve seats.

[tallbill]

I just did the rotors and pads on my '05 Pilot. Make sure you have an impact wrench or a longer phillips head bit assisted by a hammer to loosen the 2 screws that hold the rotors in place on the wheel hub. They tend to sieze and need a little persuasion by means of a couple strong taps with a hammer. I bought rotors at Advanced Auto Parts for both front & rear brakes, plus semi-ceramic pads (~$240 total). Did not replace the parking brake shoes as they were still in good shape, but I did adjust after replacing the rotors.