timing belt question

[njitgrad]

My local dealer is recommending a timing belt change at 90K (in my '04 EX) even though manual recommends changing it at 105K. They claim that waiting until 105K is risky because it could break and severely damage the engine. Is this true? I've always been one to do preventative maintenance but this is a big ticket item at $750 for the job. Thanks.

[carguy07]

Originally Posted by njitgrad

My local dealer is recommending a timing belt change at 90K (in my '04 EX) even though manual recommends changing it at 105K. They claim that waiting until 105K is risky because it could break and severely damage the engine. Is this true? I've always been one to do preventative maintenance but this is a big ticket item at $750 for the job. Thanks.

Some do them early if you drive in very severe conditions. Other than that you can wait until 105k. I don't know of any that have broken before that, heck I think you would have to look pretty hard to find any that have broken at all.

[jl_ss]

Yes - if it fails it can severely damage your engine. And yes, waiting until 105K does carry some risk - it is a very, very, very small risk though. Most look pretty good at 105K. Honda is not going to risk alienating customers by putting the TB change right at the edge of failure. Your dealer wants to make their money now instead of later if they can. Have the TB and Water pump done at 105K as recommended.

[xGS]

Originally Posted by njitgrad

My local dealer is recommending a timing belt change at 90K (in my '04 EX) even though manual recommends changing it at 105K. They claim that waiting until 105K is risky because it could break and severely damage the engine. Is this true? I've always been one to do preventative maintenance but this is a big ticket item at $750 for the job.

Check the service specials on dealers websites.
Several dealers have been advertising timing belt replacement for $400 or less.
For example, a recent ad from Hamilton Honda in central NJ:

[ptsmh73]

Originally Posted by njitgrad

My local dealer is recommending a timing belt change at 90K (in my '04 EX) even though manual recommends changing it at 105K. They claim that waiting until 105K is risky because it could break and severely damage the engine. Is this true? I've always been one to do preventative maintenance but this is a big ticket item at $750 for the job. Thanks.

The change time is 105,000 miles or seven years, with an 04 you are near the 7 year mark, so it may not be too early to change it. Good luck.

[rocky]

Depending on when you took delivery, you could have 7 years on your car already, in which case you should change it by the book. Alternatively you could only have 6 years on it, in which case, wait until the 105k which will be in a year when it hits seven.

At least you know it will have to be done (and how expensive it is).

[whizmo]

My opinion is that you're in that cost/benefit gray area where you could justify replacing it but wait also. Personally, I don't believe that calendar time is a huge factor in belt wear, so I'd wait until at least 105K. Even 105K is probably a general number that could go up/down by 25% or more depending on how a vehicle has been used (especially climate and underhood temps), so I wouldn't treat it as gospel. Maintenance recommendations like this are broad compromises between the cost of the service vs. the small risk of continuing the part in service, not hard/fast rules.

IOW my recommendation is to change it in the next year or three when it is convenient and you see a good deal. Whether this is 98K or 112K is probably not signficant. But I wouldn't use this as a license to let it go to 150K.

- Mark

[OhioBobcat2000]

I differ in the calendar belief. On my 2001 Civic, I did 95k between my 2nd and 3rd timing belt in less than 3 years. The belt looked brand new even with that many miles on it. I bet if it had taken 7-8-9 years to do the mileage, it wouldn't look that good. Time kills rubber, not mileage (unless you're talking 300k)

[lisalo]

I have a 2004 HP (104,500 miles). My ex-husband was the one who knew what services to follow and what could wait, but now I'm on my own with this. It's my primary vehicle-I love it and need it to last. I just want to make sure I go to the dealer prepared and know what the heck I'm talking about. Last spring they scared me regarding the timing belt so now that I can afford it, I am getting it done this Friday. I also requested the closest maintenance schedule (150k). They quoted me $1545...this includes the 105k service with transmission fluid service and the timing belt. Does this sound reasonable and what should I expect that they will do for that? I believe he mentioned new water pump but I can't remember if they said they were replacing or checking...same goes for spark plugs.
Also, he said that it would be another $350 or so to do a valve tightening service. I don't think I can afford that too, so what is the importance of that fix??
We bought the Pilot Feb. 2004 in Southern Arizona and lived there for 4 years, now I live in northern New England (for the past year and a half). Point being, this car has seen both ends of extreme conditions. On top of that we had a tow package and new brakes in spring '08 and drove across country hauling a U-haul trailer (med/small size). And after moving back east, I did have to have new tires put on in fall 2008. This Pilot's done some work! I just want to get a sense of what I should be doing for the vehicle, but as don't want to get taken advantage of when I go in for these services. Any advice would be GREATLY appreciated!

[whizmo]

Originally Posted by lisalo

I have a 2004 HP (104,500 miles). My ex-husband was the one who knew what services to follow and what could wait, but now I'm on my own with this. It's my primary vehicle-I love it and need it to last. I just want to make sure I go to the dealer prepared and know what the heck I'm talking about. Last spring they scared me regarding the timing belt so now that I can afford it, I am getting it done this Friday. I also requested the closest maintenance schedule (150k). They quoted me $1545...this includes the 105k service with transmission fluid service and the timing belt. Does this sound reasonable and what should I expect that they will do for that? I believe he mentioned new water pump but I can't remember if they said they were replacing or checking...same goes for spark plugs.
Also, he said that it would be another $350 or so to do a valve tightening service. I don't think I can afford that too, so what is the importance of that fix??
We bought the Pilot Feb. 2004 in Southern Arizona and lived there for 4 years, now I live in northern New England (for the past year and a half). Point being, this car has seen both ends of extreme conditions. On top of that we had a tow package and new brakes in spring '08 and drove across country hauling a U-haul trailer (med/small size). And after moving back east, I did have to have new tires put on in fall 2008. This Pilot's done some work! I just want to get a sense of what I should be doing for the vehicle, but as don't want to get taken advantage of when I go in for these services. Any advice would be GREATLY appreciated!

Congrats on taking control of your own vehicle maintenance. My take is that you should get out the owner's manual and your own records and figure out exactly what the car needs "by the book." Avoid telling the dealer to do open-ended "150K" maintenance - this is where they tend to charge an arm/leg for maintenance that you may not need. Many (most) have their own inspection lists that are more extensive that the book says... mostly they generate extra profit for the dealer.

On the specifics, 105K is where you're supposed to change plugs, timing belt (and most do the serpentine belt and water pump along with it), and check the valves. I would do all of these, although some might say that you can ignore the valves if they're not noisy. I'd look for a coupon or package special that the dealer might be running on this service and/or negotiate. Don't be afraid to shop around. All these things involve removing the same parts, so they should be cheaper to do all at once.

Another key thing often neglected is coolant and brake fluid changes. These are done on calendar time. I'd do these if you're overdue.

Good luck,

- Mark

[ptsmh73]

Originally Posted by lisalo

I have a 2004 HP (104,500 miles). My ex-husband was the one who knew what services to follow and what could wait, but now I'm on my own with this. It's my primary vehicle-I love it and need it to last. I just want to make sure I go to the dealer prepared and know what the heck I'm talking about. Last spring they scared me regarding the timing belt so now that I can afford it, I am getting it done this Friday. I also requested the closest maintenance schedule (150k). They quoted me $1545...this includes the 105k service with transmission fluid service and the timing belt. Does this sound reasonable and what should I expect that they will do for that? I believe he mentioned new water pump but I can't remember if they said they were replacing or checking...same goes for spark plugs.
Also, he said that it would be another $350 or so to do a valve tightening service. I don't think I can afford that too, so what is the importance of that fix??
We bought the Pilot Feb. 2004 in Southern Arizona and lived there for 4 years, now I live in northern New England (for the past year and a half). Point being, this car has seen both ends of extreme conditions. On top of that we had a tow package and new brakes in spring '08 and drove across country hauling a U-haul trailer (med/small size). And after moving back east, I did have to have new tires put on in fall 2008. This Pilot's done some work! I just want to get a sense of what I should be doing for the vehicle, but as don't want to get taken advantage of when I go in for these services. Any advice would be GREATLY appreciated!

The 105,000 mile service INCLUDING new timing belt, new water pump, new serpentine belt, and new spark plugs should run about $1250. The valves on a 6-cylinder engine (UNLESS NOISY) do NOT have to be adjusted. If the transmission fluid was changed regualrly (e.g., every 30,000) it should not be due until about 120,000 (same for VTM-4 fluid change) - I think this is most of the additional money (above the $1250) adding up to the $1545 quoted to you by the dealer. Also, if the car is running Ok now, I would do the timing belt, water pump, and serpentine belt (about $900) now, and then do the spark plugs at between 110,000 to 120,000 miles. Another words, the spark plugs are not as urgent a maintenance item as the timing belt. If the Pilot has been serviced by the same dealer, they should have the records of previous transmision fluid and VTM-4 changes. Good luck!

[ptsmh73]

PS - I see your location is New Hampshire. I have all my major maintenance done at Dover Honda in Dover NH and I have found them to be very honest and capable. They also offer a 10% discount on service using a coupon available on their website.

[Mainer]

Like PTSMH73, I too, live in York Me and use Dover Auto World and am happy with them. I am bringing in my 04 Pilot next week for it's timing belt/water pump/serpentine belt and they quoted $735 (less 10% cause I'm 60). They are cheaper than Stratham last I checked.

[onu2002]

I got this quote from a dealer here in OH:

Tbelt pkg (timing belt, drive belts, water pump, tensioner) = $590
Brake Fluid = $70
Supplies = $15
Tax = $52.50
Total = $727.50

Another dealer quoted me:
Tbelt pkg = $950
Brake fluid = $55
Spark plugs = $249
Valve adjustment = $450

I've decided to do the spark plugs myself, since the how-to's don't seem very difficult.

The maintenance schedule calls for inspecting the valve clearance, so I asked the guy from the second dealer, "With the valves, is there any way to inspect them without removing the valve covers? Do you normally just listen for excessive noise?" His reply, "Regarding the valves, yes we will listen to see if they need adjusted but I have only seen one car that actually needed them adjusted, it's just very rare. No there is no way to inspect without removing the covers so inspection = adjustment."

So I'll likely end up paying $727.50 for the tbelt pkg and brake fluid, plus another $100 or so for the other recommended stuff that I'll do myself.

Like ptsmh73 said, I would not just ask for the "105 thousand mile maintenance." The second dealer said that included stuff like lubricating the door hinges. I think I can spray some WD-40 on the hinges if they start squeaking, thank you very much.

My suggestion to you would be if you have the dealer do anything, only do the timing belt, and since the labor is much the same anyway, also do the water pump and drive belts (a.k.a. serpentine belt(s), or power steering and alternator belts). Maybe they could also do the transmission fluid, since you're only supposed to use Honda fluid. Then, to save money, go to a non-dealer shop for anything else, like brake fluid and spark plugs.

[lisalo]

I am in Northern New Hampshire so I wonder if it's worth the drive. My servicer is Gerrish Honda. They just called and said I needed new rear wheel bearings and want $425 ea. for a total of another $850 of work! SHould I get some different quotes? T