2010...burns oil?

[pilot~lyte]

Hi everyone!

I found this forum while searching for info after a bad experience when I got my oil changed today.

Quick intro: I got my 2010 Touring back in October. I just hit 14K miles and I'm seriously thinking of selling it. At the time that I bought it (paid cash) I worked for Ford Motor Company and wanted a Flex, but even with the employee price I got a better deal on the Pilot, plus hey! it's a Honda, right?

Within a week or so I was royally ticked by the cheapo plastic dash and "leather" seats. I'm so tired of having to Amor-all it weekly to hide the white marks on the dash. I really want to lose it and get a Flex.

Anyway, I was told at delivery that I only had to change the oil when the MM told me to. My first LOF was to be at 15%. No problem, did that. Now call me stupid, but I did NOT go to the dealership and pay $80. I went to a Mobil quik-lube place, the drive-in kind where you stay in your car. (I used it many times before in my crappy old Pontiac Sunfire and had no problems.) The first change was around maybe 6k miles or so. It was all in-town driving, very little highway, except for about 1,200 between Orlando and Atlanta and back.

Two weeks ago I drove from FL to NY by way of a detour in Pittsburgh. I knew I was getting close to the 15% point, but I just figured I'd get an oil change in NY if necessary. Well, the MM came on the day we were leaving to drive back to FL and my young son was sick with a fever. I figured I would wait and see where we stopped for the night and make a decision based on what % the oil was at by then.

Very quickly, while we were on the road the next day, it went from 15 down to 0% in just a few miles on I95. My son was really sick and I needed to get home, so I decided to push it and went 900 miles past 0%. I know, I know...but it's a Honda, right?

We got home last week but the car wasn't being driven because I've been home with my sick boy. This afternoon I went for only the 2nd the oil change (at 14k mi) and I had less than a quart!

Did the car really burn off all that oil, or is it likely that the tech didn't tighten things up and it leaked out?

I've poked around online and saw something that says that Mobil 1 is great, but synthetic shouldn't be used under 10k miles because it's so smooth it'll leak out. So was I supposed to use conventional oil for the first LOF back at 6k? Did the car come from the factory with conventional oil or synthetic?

The lube tech today scolded me for following MM and said that my car may not need a change every 3k miles, but the oil still only had a 3 month/3k mile lifespan.

So other than going a bit past 0%, what did I do wrong?

[bnesti]

Can you clarify... at the 2nd oil change (at 14k), was (a) the oil 1 quart low, or (b) did only 1 quart drain out?

If (b), how do you know that only 1 quart was drained? Was this 2nd oil change at a dealer, or at one of the quick oil change places?

I would follow what the manufacturer recommends. Oil (especially synthetic) will last more than 3k miles (3 months). FYI - I had a leased 2006 BMW330i (which also used a MM to tell you when to change oil), and I think I went 10-12k miles between oil changes.

Did you notice any leaks on the garage floor or underneath the car? If multiple quarts of oil leaked out, there should be a lot of oil on the ground and/or splattered all over the underside of the pilot.

DId you notice any check engine and/or low oil pressure lights? Any excessive smoking out the tailpipe?

On the other hand, if (a) the oil was 1 quart low, I wouldn't be overly concerned.

Oh, IMO, synthetic is fine to use at 6k miles...

Just my 2 cents.

Bryan

[krygny]

Welcome to the forum and good luck, whatever you decide. I don't mean to disparage your thought processes or understanding of the MM, but I'll just make a few points, if I may.

Originally Posted by pilot~lyte

...
Anyway, I was told at delivery that I only had to change the oil when the MM told me to. My first LOF was to be at 15%. No problem, did that. Now call me stupid, but I did NOT go to the dealership and pay $80.

I pay <$30 for an oil change at the dealers here on Long Island. I can't believe it's more anywhere else. Nothing is.

Originally Posted by pilot~lyte

Two weeks ago I drove from FL to NY by way of a detour in Pittsburgh. I knew I was getting close to the 15% point, but I just figured I'd get an oil change in NY if necessary.

I think few people would start out on a trip like that without a fresh oil change. That was probably your first and only real mistake.

Originally Posted by pilot~lyte

Very quickly, while we were on the road the next day, it went from 15 down to 0% in just a few miles on I95.

The MM is a courtesy reminder. It's not a substitute for checking the oil manually between changes (any more than the TPMS is a substitute for checking tires pressure).

Originally Posted by pilot~lyte

... This afternoon I went for only the 2nd the oil change (at 14k mi) and I had less than a quart!

Did the car really burn off all that oil, or is it likely that the tech didn't tighten things up and it leaked out?

If there's a leak that much, you will see stains where the car is parked. All I can recommend is that you check the oil frequently, now that you have a fresh change in the car. You don't need to change the oil every 3000 mi like the dealer says. They want to sell oil changes. Whatever the manual says (7500?) is what you should do. I don't think routine Florida driving is considered harsh conditions unless most of your trips are short hauls (< 2 mi). Check the oil between changes. Add a qt, when necessary. All engines use a small amount of oil. Adding a quart between changes is considered normal. There's nothing special about synthetic oil. Some prefer it but any good quality oil changed routinely will do just as well.

I hope your son is doing better.

[whizmo]

Originally Posted by krygny

The MM is a courtesy reminder. It's not a substitute for checking the oil manually between changes (any more than the TPMS is a substitute for checking tires pressure).

This is the key here. Running 5, 10, even 20% over the MM's recommendation for an oil change interval is not a huge deal - you may be incrementally shortening your engine life by a tiny bit, but this is just part of the normal trade-off doing more frequent oil changes vs. longer engine life.

But habitually running your engine oil below the minimum level is a big deal and can cause immediate and expensive problems. And the MM has NOTHING to do with this - oil level has to be done manually on the Pilot.

Until you get a handle on what oil consumption is, on any new/new-to-you vehicle, you should be checking the engine oil OFTEN - every gas stop initially. Once you see how consumption is trending, you can ease off and start being more lackadaisical about it, but not at the beginning.

Honda has very liberal specifications for that is "acceptable" engine oil consumption - I've heard they consider 1-qt/1000 miles within the acceptable range, even on a new engine. Most owners wouldn't find this acceptable and if you complain and get Honda corp involved, you can probably get repairs done prior to this, but you need to keep careful records. Honda considers having to monitor the level and adding a qt or two between oil changes completely normal and if you just drive it between oil changes without ever checking the oil, you're asking for big/expensive trouble.

- Mark

[jl_ss]

Originally Posted by whizmo

Honda has very liberal specifications for that is "acceptable" engine oil consumption - I've heard they consider 1-qt/1000 miles within the acceptable range, even on a new engine. Most owners wouldn't find this acceptable and if you complain and get Honda corp involved, you can probably get repairs done prior to this, but you need to keep careful records. Honda considers having to monitor the level and adding a qt or two between oil changes completely normal and if you just drive it between oil changes without ever checking the oil, you're asking for big/expensive trouble.

- Mark

The industry standard is 1 qt/1000 miles. If you are using less than this quantity, the dealership will check for obvious signs of leakage/usage under warranty. If none is found then they will search further for a cause on your dime. If you are using more than this quantity, then they will search further under warranty. This applies to most manufacturers.

[jl_ss]

Originally Posted by pilot~lyte

Hi everyone!

I found this forum while searching for info after a bad experience when I got my oil changed today.

Quick intro: I got my 2010 Touring back in October. I just hit 14K miles and I'm seriously thinking of selling it. At the time that I bought it (paid cash) I worked for Ford Motor Company and wanted a Flex, but even with the employee price I got a better deal on the Pilot, plus hey! it's a Honda, right?

Within a week or so I was royally ticked by the cheapo plastic dash and "leather" seats. I'm so tired of having to Amor-all it weekly to hide the white marks on the dash. I really want to lose it and get a Flex.

Anyway, I was told at delivery that I only had to change the oil when the MM told me to. My first LOF was to be at 15%. No problem, did that. Now call me stupid, but I did NOT go to the dealership and pay $80. I went to a Mobil quik-lube place, the drive-in kind where you stay in your car. (I used it many times before in my crappy old Pontiac Sunfire and had no problems.) The first change was around maybe 6k miles or so. It was all in-town driving, very little highway, except for about 1,200 between Orlando and Atlanta and back.

Two weeks ago I drove from FL to NY by way of a detour in Pittsburgh. I knew I was getting close to the 15% point, but I just figured I'd get an oil change in NY if necessary. Well, the MM came on the day we were leaving to drive back to FL and my young son was sick with a fever. I figured I would wait and see where we stopped for the night and make a decision based on what % the oil was at by then.

Very quickly, while we were on the road the next day, it went from 15 down to 0% in just a few miles on I95. My son was really sick and I needed to get home, so I decided to push it and went 900 miles past 0%. I know, I know...but it's a Honda, right?

We got home last week but the car wasn't being driven because I've been home with my sick boy. This afternoon I went for only the 2nd the oil change (at 14k mi) and I had less than a quart!

Did the car really burn off all that oil, or is it likely that the tech didn't tighten things up and it leaked out?

I've poked around online and saw something that says that Mobil 1 is great, but synthetic shouldn't be used under 10k miles because it's so smooth it'll leak out. So was I supposed to use conventional oil for the first LOF back at 6k? Did the car come from the factory with conventional oil or synthetic?

The lube tech today scolded me for following MM and said that my car may not need a change every 3k miles, but the oil still only had a 3 month/3k mile lifespan.

So other than going a bit past 0%, what did I do wrong?

Something is amiss here. You had the first oil change at 6K and there was no indication of a signifcant usage. Mobil would have let you know if there was. The mobile place does the oil change and at the next change, you only have 1 quart left? No usage in the first 6K and then 1 qt every 2K miles after that change? Sounds fishy, usage should remain constant unless something changes. It's more likely that the tech did not replace the crush washer and it leaked out - but there would be evidence of that leakage visible.

[jl_ss]

Also note, our dealership offers a no appt. quick lube priced oil change. I trust the Honda techs to correctly replace the crush washer rather than the jiffy lube type services where the tech may not even know the crush washer is needed.

[whizmo]

Originally Posted by jl_ss

You had the first oil change at 6K and there was no indication of a signifcant usage. Mobil would have let you know if there was.

Why would you assume this? Quickey-lube places pull the plug and let it drain into a large catch tank without having any way to measure how much comes out. Perhaps the "tech" (and I use the word liberally) might note and say something if the amount coming out seemed less than normal, but they work very quickly and the moment the drain plug was out, the tech was probably looking for his oil filter wrench to get on with the job. I'd consider it more likely they'd not notice a thing, or if they did, not bother to say anything since it just raises questions for which they have no answers.

Using the amount of oil that comes out during an oil change is a really lousy way to to measure oil consumption. Checking oil regularly with the dipstick is the proper method.

- Mark

[jl_ss]

Originally Posted by whizmo

Why would you assume this? Quickey-lube places pull the plug and let it drain into a large catch tank without having any way to measure how much comes out. Perhaps the "tech" (and I use the word liberally) might note and say something if the amount coming out seemed less than normal, but they work very quickly and the moment the drain plug was out, the tech was probably looking for his oil filter wrench to get on with the job. I'd consider it more likely they'd not notice a thing, or if they did, not bother to say anything since it just raises questions for which they have no answers.

Using the amount of oil that comes out during an oil change is a really lousy way to to measure oil consumption. Checking oil regularly with the dipstick is the proper method.

- Mark

I agree, it's not a given. The assumption is based on the fact that they caught it the second time - but it could be different techs. Verifying requires making sure a new crush washer was used, everything is tightened properly, and the correct amount of oil is currently in the engine. Then checking the dipstick regularly like you mentioned.

[RSQ Pilot]

Originally Posted by pilot~lyte

Hi everyone!

I found this forum while searching for info after a bad experience when I got my oil changed today.
....


... only the 2nd the oil change (at 14k mi) and I had less than a quart!

......

So other than going a bit past 0%, what did I do wrong?

Not routinely checking your oil level.....

I also think the story sounds a little fishy. Maybe OP will clarify....Maybe he is out trading the Pilot for that Flex.

Was it 1 quart low or 3- 3.5 quarts low? How was that determined?
It's hard to picture loosing 3-3.5 quarts of oil over +/- 8000 miles and not noticing signs of a leak such as a puddle on the garage/driveway...that auful burnt oil smell/smoke from lost oil migrating from the engine bay onto the hot exhaust system ...the flashing check engine oil level warning message ... no oil on the dip stick... etc.

I also doubt a 1 time reused crush washer, brand or blend of oil would be the culprits.

[jl_ss]

Originally Posted by RSQ Pilot

Not routinely checking your oil level.....


I also doubt a 1 time reused crush washer, brand or blend of oil would be the culprits.

Unless the mobile tech was not even aware a crush washer was required and didn't put it back on.

[RSQ Pilot]

Originally Posted by jl_ss

Unless the mobile tech was not even aware a crush washer was required and didn't put it back on.

I doubt a missing or even a 1x used crush washer would have resulted in an unnoticed 3-3.5 quart leak that I know from experience.

[jl_ss]

Originally Posted by RSQ Pilot

I doubt a missing or even a 1x used crush washer would have resulted in an unnoticed 3-3.5 quart leak that I know from experience.

Under normal circumstances most people would notice that much leakage, however, the OP was on a trip and dealing with a sick son so they weren't parking in the same place much.

I actually had a dealer tech deeply scratch the sealing surface of the oil drain hole on a previous vehicle. But it would only leak under certain conditions. It was not leaving a puddle where it was parked. I got suspicious when I noticed some excess oil on the undercarriage. It took a while to figure out the real problem though. It would actually leak quite a bit while driving but not while parked. The scratch could not be easily repaired so the dealer replaced the entire oil pan on their dime.

[sh3lby_pilot]

Like most response from the original poster. It is very fishy. the story is BS. he's a flex owner now lol

[armpilot]

i'm currently at 16000km and on my first change. I burn 1/2 litre of oil during the breakin period but have not burnt any oil as of today. I'm at 50% of the MM. about 6000km to go.