Just performed tranny and VTM-4 fluid changes, my thoughts.

[samc]

06 EX-L, 48k miles

Just performed the transmission fluid change and VTM-4 fluid change, along with an oil change ofcourse. At 48,171 miles and code came up as A. I know it didn't say to change the first two fluids but I just felt it needed to be done.

First the tranny fluid:
The person before me used gorilla hands to tighten down the fill and drain plugs. Seriously I bent a metal broom (sort of a breaker bar) trying to get them off. If you were curious where the drain plug was it's the only one under the tranny with a 3/8" socket hole in it, I think mine was painted blue but it has faded somewhat. Used just under 4 quarts of fluid (about 3.8q) and it cost $8.53/quart. I bought an extra one just incase I messed up.

VTM-4:
That as well was put on with Lou Ferrigno arms. It literally took a 3 foot long breaker bar to get the two bolts off. Used about 3/4 gallon of that VTM-4 fluid. Cost was $33.54. And $4.09 for a gallon hand pump which worked surprisingly well.

What pissed me off the most was that Honda charged me $3.50~ a piece for those washers. And not only did they charge me that much (for slivers of thin aluminum) they gave me the wrong one for the VTM-4 drain plug. The VTM drain plug washer is the same size as the tranny drain plug one. The larger one below was from the VTM-4 fill bolt.

So in short buy fluids from Honda dealers but buy the washers online, preferably while you're ordering more oil filters. But $120 (oil, tranny, vtm-4 fluids, oil filter, pump, washers) later and I'm happy knowing everything is a o k.

You can sort of see the smaller ring inside (underneath)


Left washer is smaller, used for VTM-4 drain and tranny drain plugs. (Same plugs infact).

[samc]

Ok so I'm back from my drive to Burger King and Autozone to drop off the fluids. Did you know they don't accept transmission fluid? I'll just try a different store.

But anyway tranny shifts just as well as before the new fluid so I guess it wasn't absolutely necessary. And well it's spring/summer so I can't really use the VTM-4 system but I'm still happy both systems have new fluid.

[carguy07]

Find another dealer or order online. I'm paying $5.33 for ATF, 21.09 for VTM-4, between .5 and $1.50 each for the washers.

Autozone "should" take the ATF it is fine to recycle it with motor oil. Just don't tell them what it is. That way you won't get a no because someone does not know the right answer. Tell them it's Redline oil or something if they question the color. Mine just lets me dump it myself since I'm there enough and they are always busy.

[onu2002]

Originally Posted by samc

First the tranny fluid:
...
Used just under 4 quarts of fluid (about 3.8q)
...

You only did one drain fill? You're supposed to do four.

Originally Posted by samc

Did you know [Autozone doesn't] accept transmission fluid?

From Advance's website: "Advance Auto Parts encourages consumers to protect natural resources and underground drinking water supplies by properly disposing of used motor oil, transmission fluid, hydraulic oil, gear oil and power steering fluid at any Advance Auto Parts store."

I gotta believe Autozone accepts the same stuff. Heck, they probably use the same recycler.

[samc]

I didn't order the fluids online because I checked on site that was selling the VTM-4 fluid for around $20, and then $25 shipping. But yeah I suppose I'll keep checking online next time.

About the fluid, yeah I'll probably just go back tomorrow and say it's something else. I did sort of mix in some engine oil with it, used same drain pan. If all else I'll try a strauss auto. Sadly we don't have an Advanced Auto parts in NYC atleast none that I know of.

And what do you mean I'm supposed to do it four times? This was a regular transmission oil change. I didn't cross contaminate with a different fluid, it was the original honda stuff. I think you're a bit confused on this part.

[onu2002]

Originally Posted by samc

And what do you mean I'm supposed to do it four times? This was a regular transmission oil change. I didn't cross contaminate with a different fluid, it was the original honda stuff. I think you're a bit confused on this part.

Unless the 06 is different...

From the 2003 Owner's Manual, pg293:

To thoroughly flush the transmission, the technician (that would be you) should drain and refill it with Honda ATF-Z1 (Automatic Transmission Fluid), then drive the vehicle a short distance. Do this three times. Then drain and refill the transmission a final time.

So...
1. Drain, Fill, Drive
2. Drain, Fill, Drive
3. Drain, Fill, Drive
4. Drain, Fill

But that's only if you want to "thoroughly flush the transmission."

[onu2002]

Originally Posted by samc

Sadly we don't have an Advanced Auto parts in NYC atleast none that I know of.

I mentioned Advance, not to suggest you find one, but to compare them to Autozone. If Advance explicitly accepts transmission fluid, per their website, I would say Autozone does too. I'm with carguy07 - the person you asked probably didn't know the correct answer.

[whizmo]

Originally Posted by onu2002

Unless the 06 is different...

Perhaps it is. On the 06's the OM says nothing about transmission fluid changes other than doing it "according to the time and distance recommendations in the maintenance schedule" which presumably means to follow the MM system. Code 3 is for ATF and transfer case fluid changes.

The 06 shop manual has a section on ATF replacement and it describes only a single drain and refill.

I'm planning on doing a single drain/refill as the MM says on my 06. With 44K, I'm expecting it will pop up the code pretty soon.

- Mark

[samc]

Ok so Onu2002 what you were referring to is a thorough flush if you happened to have used dexron III is a temp top-off. Here's a link with a picture of the manual book

Either way I've never heard of any car wanting 4 fluid changes on a normal service.
And the reason I did my tranny fluid change now is I drove my car for about 16k miles now since I bought it and the code didn't come up. But after changing the fluid it looked very clean and probably could have gone a few K more miles without any problems.

2003 Honda Pilot. First Automatic Transmission Fluid Change.

[onu2002]

Well yeah, the 4x procedure to thoroughly flush is under the temporary replacement section, but regardless of the reason for a thorough flush (fluid other than VTM4 or simply old fluid), the 4x procedure is required, since a power flush isn't good.

I've read of two approaches to the trans fluid. Either the 4x procedure when the maintenance schedule (or MM) suggests, or 1x drain/refill more frequently.

[whizmo]

Originally Posted by onu2002

...regardless of the reason for a thorough flush (fluid other than VTM4 or simply old fluid), the 4x procedure is required....Either the 4x procedure when the maintenance schedule (or MM) suggests, or 1x drain/refill more frequently.

You're not getting it.

You may personally feel it needs a 4X flush or perhaps you just like doing extra maintenance, but Honda doesn't feel so. The standard "by the book", Honda-recommended maintenance procedure for the transmission is to do a 1x drain refill when the MM says or when the maintenance interval comes up (about every 50K).

The 4x flush is not "required", at least not by Honda.

- Mark

[N_Jay]

Originally Posted by whizmo

You're not getting it.

You may personally feel it needs a 4X flush or perhaps you just like doing extra maintenance, but Honda doesn't feel so. The standard "by the book", Honda-recommended maintenance procedure for the transmission is to do a 1x drain refill when the MM says or when the maintenance interval comes up (about every 50K).

The 4x flush is not "required", at least not by Honda.

- Mark

1X for normal maintenance

4X for a "flush" after temporarily installing non-Z1 fluid.

Also seems to be recommended for any time a flush would be prudent, such as with burnt fluid, and other transmission issues.

[samc]

It's ok I was just trying to be nice to the guy. Because think about it this way, have you personally flushed and filled the tranny 4 times every time for 15k miles? I doubt you bought 16 quarts of tranny fluid each time.

As said 4x only for contamination for special cases such as burnt fluid.
Same goes for vtm-4.

Again my tranny felt quite normal today with about 70 miles of driving.
Now I gotta wonder, does anyone change their engine oil 4 times in a row? Imagine how happy Mobil1 would be if everyone did that.

[whizmo]

Originally Posted by samc

Now I gotta wonder, does anyone change their engine oil 4 times in a row?

Not really comparable situations. When you do an engine oil change you drain about 95% of the oil. On a tranny, with most of the fluid in the torque convertor rather than the pan, you get about 35% out. That's where this idea of doing multiple drain/fill cycles comes from and why it is recommended by Honda if you put the wrong fluid in.

Honda feels that doing a 1/3 change at the required intervals is sufficient. This sounds worrisome, but one should keep in mind that many cars have no periodic auto tranny fluid changes for the life of the car, so compared to this, Honda's recommendation is still fairly conservative.

For severe service, Honda shortens the interval (still only one cycle) to 30K.

- Mark

[onu2002]

I didn't mean that Honda "requires" a thorough flush, but that the 4x procedure is required to perform a thorough flush.

The manual says "the transmission should be drained and refilled with new fluid" according to the schedule, but doesn't explicitly say 1x or 4x. I guess you could infer either, but 1x is probably correct, since it explicitly recommends 4x after using non-ATFZ1 fluid.

I'll probably continue the 4x, since the added cost and effort doesn't really amount to much since it takes me about 3 years to go 30k miles.

And I don't think 4x would be required for VTM4, since the diff is self-contained and the drain is at the low point.