Inner Tie rods - Change

[harley909]

Well I learned a few things lately,

Had my 2003 EXL (204,000km on it) in the shop a few weeks ago. Actually 2 shops, the Dealer and a Tire/Alignment Shop.
Both told me the "inners" needed to be replaced. Was quoted $440 and $430 from each Shop plus taxes. The prices were certainly consistent. I assumed the wheel alignment was in that price.
My Pilot was not displaying any "clicking", pulling, shimmying etc. I simply had tire noise that I was having them check out.

I looked into this further and decided to change them myself. Lifetime warrantied TRW inners at PartSource were just under $100 with all taxes for both. PartSource lent me the tool to undo the inners from the rack....no charge

I jacked up the Pilot at 4:10pm in my driveway and was in eating supper at 6:10pm all cleaned up after test driving the Pilot. Well under 2 hours for all the work including putting the tools away. I did all the work on my driveway, no lift or "pit". I used jackstands and handtools other than the inner tie rod wrench set from PartSource.

The hardest part was undoing the outer tie rods as well as loosening the nut that secures the threaded portion of the inner tie rod to the outer (adjustment nut). Just took a few whaps with a big hammer and some pushing with the wrenches to get by these things.

So it turns out the one inner was fairly new compared to the other. I have had the Pilot for 60,000KM so I assume it was put on just before I got it. It was still pretty snug, certainly did not have to be replaced, but I did it anyways. I know it was replaced for sure because whoever did it put new clamps on the boot and did a poor job as the boot was twisted/crooked.
The other inner was probably original and it was loose, but really I did not think it was terribly bad. There was a wee bit of play when I checked it with the wheel off the ground.

So I learned about changing the inners and I would do it anytime on a Pilot. It was fairly easy.
So I learned about Shops too. Far as I am concerned they are crooks. Their $325 in labour is a joke. I would say a decent mechanic would have been able to change these in 1-2hrs max and could have a coffee in between. That would make their hourly charge anywhere from $160-$300/hr before the alignment (if it was even included in the quotes). As for their inspection, obviously one of the inners didn't even have to be changed, so that was just another reason not to trust them.

I will take the Pilot in for a wheel alignment at "another shop" and can hardly wait for them to try to pull the "you need this fixed before we can align it .... line"

As a side note, I really did not notice any big difference in the steering after. It was pretty tight before. As well, I took the time to carefully measure the threads in order to maintain the alignment so I am not expecting it to be out that much if at all. It certainly doesn't pull and the wheel is centered.

[dustino8]

Great job! Sure wish I had the tool when doing mine. Took me a pretty much a full day without it

[belundy]

Congrats--another member who did his own tie rods!

The inner tie rod tool really does make quick work of it.

[justrfb]

All,
I have an interesting way to avoid needing an alignment from the shop whenever you work on parts that may upset the whole system. The one caveat is that the alignment has to be good or perfect before you start. In other words, the alignment when you are done will only be as good as the alignment was before you started the job to, let’s say, change tie rod ends. It works for changing struts too. I don't have pictures so words are going to have to be enough to get the method across... Here it goes.
After you take your wheel off the hub, get your laser level out and secure it as best you can to the rotor, pointing at the inside cover of the wheel well. I taped mine secure with duct tape. Turn the laser level on and you should see a tiny but very clear and defined red or green dot (depending on your laser color) shinning on your inside wheel well splash guard. Take a nail or center punch and put a dent exactly over the laser dot. Proceed to change you tie rod ends or struts or whatever (without touching your steering wheel!!) and after you are finished changing the part, turn your laser level on again and "dial in" your "alignment" to exactly where it was before you started the work. There you go... Worked like a charm for me the last time I did my tie rod ends. I didn't want to pay the shop to align my car... I kept thinking, "my alignment is perfect right now before I start, how can I keep it there.... There must be a way..." Hope this helps.

[belundy]

Interesting and quite elegant...you'd have to be really careful not to turn the wheel left-right or rotate the rotor, which would mess up your ref. I guess if you left the other wheel on the ground it might help. Is that what you do?

If you are without a laser level and want to return to initial alignment, here's a way less elegant technique.

Sitting still with steering wheel straight, put a piece of masking tape on the steering wheel and another on the steering wheel column cover directly across the gap. Drive a straight and level stretch of road and snap a hands-off-wheel cell phone photo of the steering wheel to get a ref. Make sure the tape marks are in the shot. This gives you an accurate and repeatable visual of the position.

Then, replace ONE side tie rods (inner and outer if you like). Drive the car on same stretch of road and note how far off the steering wheel is from the ref photo. Tweak the toe adj on the side you worked on until the steering wheel is back to the ref.

Carry the adj wrench and pull to side of road to make tweaks and drive it again. Don't set the lock nut until done. Mark the outer tie-rod and inner rod threads with finger nail polish--the white stuff is great-- before setting the lock nut.

DON'T touch the other side toe adj!

Go back and do the other side tie rod(s) and repeat toe adj on that side until you are back to steering wheel ref.

YouTube also has a variety of DIY toe adjustment methods, if you actually want to measure.

[harley909]

I did 2 things when I took it apart.
I measured (using a steel ruler in mm) the length of the threads from the adjusting nut before and then I actually took a piece of wire an touched the end of it against the nut and bent it over the end of the threaded portion of the tie rod arm so that I had 2 ways to reference the exact length that the tie rod was when I took it apart. When I threaded the nut then the outer back on I measured and checked it with the wire to make sure it was the same. May not be as accurate as a lazer but it would have been within a mm of what it was, assuming it was in line before.
There is also an assumption that the new inner tie rod and arm are the same length as the old. I did compare them to each other and they sure looked the same length.

I figure for $80 I will get the alignment done just to make sure. After all I could afford to spend $80 after saving $350 in labour by changing the inner tie rods myself.

[nickg5]

good for you for handling the job.

I am guessing the shops have a standard way to assess the hours charged to do the job. I think there is a standard assessment. Like if the book says 3 hrs or labor they will charge you that plus parts plus alignment. Was the charge broken down to what it included? I bet it was 2hrs of labor at $100/hr plus parts at retail about $120-140 plus $100 for alignment.

it sucks they charge that much but I suppose if they take more they are stuck with it. (somehow I think if they have to do something extra they will still charge you extra the work they did so still no cigar)

cheers

[Koan]

Can you recall what size the inner tie rod end flat surface was - Im looking to do this job and need to know what size inner tie rod tool is needed. Thanks!

[dustino8]

Originally posted by Koan
Can you recall what size the inner tie rod end flat surface was - Im looking to do this job and need to know what size inner tie rod tool is needed. Thanks!

I can't recall for sure. Either 20 or 22mm.

[armandjones82]

That was a good job in handling that tie rod that you made! It was a good thing that I read this kind of post in order to see that it can be made by one. Good job in this one!

[Galland1928]

I've been noticing a creaking from my front end and checked it this morning. It seems the sound is coming from the inner tie rod.

Any idea what would cause a creaking sound from the inner tie rod? I've never heard or seen this before

I've got a 2004 Pilot with 83k miles

[jezzy]

No photos or DIY's for this hu? I just got my timing belt changed at the stealer (1267$ cdn tx inc.. with water pump and tensioner btw) and they kindly did a run-over what else needs to be done to my car. outer CV boot on the pass side, all table bushings, and both inner tie rods and spark plugs.. quoted me 1680$ tax inc!! I almost fell to the floor.

Anyway I can save $ I'll do it.. I didn't want to tempt doing the timing belt myself.. but other things I'd be happy to do.

[carguy07]

Originally Posted by jezzy

No photos or DIY's for this hu? I just got my timing belt changed at the stealer (1267$ cdn tx inc.. with water pump and tensioner btw) and they kindly did a run-over what else needs to be done to my car. outer CV boot on the pass side, all table bushings, and both inner tie rods and spark plugs.. quoted me 1680$ tax inc!! I almost fell to the floor.

Anyway I can save $ I'll do it.. I didn't want to tempt doing the timing belt myself.. but other things I'd be happy to do.

This is on an MDX, but it should be the same thing.
Tie rods - inner and outer replacement DIY with Pics - Acura MDX Forum : Acura MDX SUV Forums

[94eg!]

I found this with 3 minutes of google searching... http://www.justanswer.com/honda/1zo0...honda-pil.html

Here is the parts list and image: Part Detail

The #1 inner tie rod comes with a new lock washer (#9). You may also need a new large boot band #5, and you may as well replace the boot #8 while you've got it apart. Don't forget you need an alignment afterward as counting the # of turns will not get your steering perfect. Lots of tire shops offer lifetime alignments if you plan on doing more work later on.



That tool for separating the outer tie rod from the knuckle in the 1st link isn't really necessary for this job. Once you break loose the jam-nut against the outer tie rod, you can unscrew the inner tie rod by simply spinning it. If you do want to replace the outer tie rod, get yourself a tie-rod lifter and skip that stupid pickle-fork thing. They are $21 shipped on Amazon and really come in handy for doing suspension work:

Amazon

Amazon

[jezzy]

Thats some great information there guys, thanks for providing it to me. From what I can tell, its about 100$ of parts (oem Honda) and the dealer quoted 198$ for both tie rods and 3 (!) hours of work for a total of 573$. Really? 3 hours of work for inner tie rods?

thanks again