I'm having this done on my car...is it a good price?

[jennyshopaustin]

I have 105k on my car and doing the 90/105k maintenance together. Total cost $1400.

front and rear differential fluid change, transmission fluid change, air filter, Denso platinum spark plugs, brake fluid flush, coolant, general inspection of items on factory schedule

Valve adjustment with all gaskets, spark plug tube seals, valve cover hold down grommets

Timing belt job with water pump, factory belt, new fan belts, replace two camshaft oil seals, replace front crankshaft oil seal

[moda_way]

Given the fact that I would do a lot of that myself, it seems expensive. However, since a shop is doing all of it, you aren't getting any deals on parts and labor is by the book, so the rates are standard. My guess is, if you took it to another Honda dealership, you'd only have a slim chance to better the price on parts alone, if that were even possible. So $1400 isn't going to change.

[rocky]

I want to go back and check the service manual and engine specs-I don't recall Valve adjustment being part of the 105K service.

My other vehicles have hydralic valve adjustment which doesn't need any mechanic messing around under the valve covers. Can't recall if the Pilot is the same way.

[jennyshopaustin]

From Honda 105K recommended services it states "inspect valves for noise, adjust at additional cost".
I'm actually taking the car to a local mechanic (honda certified) and he quoted $1400. I thought it was a good price.

Honda quoted $1235 just for:
timing belt, water pump, spark plugs, rear diff. fluids, oil change and of course inspect everything.

[jennyshopaustin]

Originally posted by rocky
I want to go back and check the service manual and engine specs-I don't recall Valve adjustment being part of the 105K service.

My other vehicles have hydralic valve adjustment which doesn't need any mechanic messing around under the valve covers. Can't recall if the Pilot is the same way.

so...now to think of it, do I really need to do this:
"Valve adjustment with all gaskets, spark plug tube seals, valve cover hold down grommets: $425."...he's charging $425 for it.

Thanks.

[belundy]

No, unless the valves are clattering, like in "what is that racket?", then leave them be. Save your $450. The owner's manual is correct. Don't let the dealer or anyone else tell you otherwise.

While they have it in the shop, have them check front and passenger side engine mounts and inner tie rod ends. They'll have to pull the boots back on the tie rods and observe play.

Find a good independent shop. Austin probably has a shop that specializes in Hondas.

[macphanatic]

Use this edmunds.com tool to find out:

http://www.edmunds.com/maintenance/select.html

Make sure to change the zip code to yours.

[jennyshopaustin]

I asked the mechanic about the valves and this is his response. I can't tell if it's BS or not:

Hondas used to call for this every 30,000 miles, on earlier models-now it is only once, at 105,000. The valves do tighten up over time, and can burn a valve if that happens. You can't inspect them without removing the valve covers, and that is when you adjust them. It is a big job because on the inboard side, you have to take off part of the intake manifold to get at that valve cover.
If they never get adjusted, the gaskets never get changed, and they will start leaking sooner or later, and the oil runs down on the exhaust and makes an unpleasant burning smell. So it is in the maintenance schedule for a reason. We do normally have to change the setting on every one of them when we check them at 105,000 miles, so they do need it.

[belundy]

Well, if that's an exact quote, it's BS.

Honda says in owners manual and in at least one of their tech newsletters that you don't need to EVER adjust the valves unless they are making racket--a audible indication that valve lash is excessive. You don't need to take the valve covers off to hear assess that.

And, in an otherwise well behaved engine (at 105k we'll assume it is) valve lash RARELY tightens up and then burn valves over time. Rather, overwhelmingly, lash loosens up (more play) caused by wear. The only consequence of play is more noise and eventually a bit of power loss as the valves don't open as far as they once did.

I occasionally snug up the valve cover gaskets, but never replace them unless they are leaking or had another reason to take the cover off (like timing belt or valve work).

If it runs fine and idles (with hood closed) quietly, then leave valves alone and tell the mechanic to kick that can down the road.

If he is pressing this issue, also makes one wonder how honest he is on other matters.

[belundy]

Oh, and about having to adjust the lash on every valve at 105,000 mi. Of course, the lash will not be at the factory nominal value as the valve train has 105,000 on it. Sure, if you have the valve cover off, there'd be no reason other than labor cost to not go ahead and adjust all them to nominal.

Find someone else with a Pilot with say half the miles and compare your idle noises to theirs.

[N_Jay]

Originally posted by belundy
nd, valve lash doesn't tighten up and then burn valves over time. Rather, lash loosens up (more play) caused by wear. The only consequence of play is more noise and eventually a bit of power loss as the valves don't open as far as they once did.

Really? You sure?

I have not had a problem with any of my Honda's, so I don't know what is typical, but CR-Vs are famous for having tight valves followed by burnt valves.

There are lots of reasons that valves with either tighter or loosen over time. (More to tightening)

Tighten;
Worn valve face,
Worn valve seat,
Stretching valve stem,
Receding valve seat (Very bad)

Loosen:
Worn cam follower,
Worn/mushroomed valve stem tip
Worn cam lobes,
Worn cam bearings,


Remember, it is not what you know, or what you don't know that gets you in trouble.

It is thinking you know what you don't know!

[belundy]

Thank you listing every possible way a valve can fail, the majority of which have to be in the 0.5 percentile.

I'm sure her Pilot is victim to at least one of these in catastrophic state.

In engines that are non-defective to begin with--I suppose 105k miles running well would count-- valves *overwhelmingly* loosen up over time. Please don't tell me you are going to argue that.

How many car owners or service manuals you've read suggest, upon routine maintenance, that the valves might be too tight?

In this nice lady's case, there is absolutely no reason to remove the valve covers and check for loose valves much less tight ones, unless they are making or racket or it is running like crap (like a serious miss) that would justify it?

I went back and edited my primary post to fit your 0.5 percentile. Anything else, your Analness?

[N_Jay]

You are right, follow the manual. (I never said otherwise)

You are guessing that Pilots loosen, (unless you have some supporting evidence)

Given the nature of engines of similar design and same manufacturer to have common issues, I would be just as concerned about tightening then loosening (based on well established CR-V history).

Given the 105,000 mile factory recommendation, I would guess that Honda has made some improvements.

If you would present your vast knowledge as knowledge, and not present your opinions as "knowledge", we would not keep doing this.

[belundy]

No guess that Pilots *typically* loosen with age--isn't that what the OWNER'S MANUAL and SERVICE MANUAL implies and what I wrote? Do they ANYWHERE suggest or recommend you check them just in case they are tight? Do THEY appear concerned about that?

I looked into the CR-V issue. Appears to be a *defect* in some (certainly not all) valve seats that shows up at about 50K miles, not 105K during routine maintenance.

[snip]

[silver07ex]

I have been reading here for quite a while and this thread gave me a reason to finally sign-up. I will have to agree with N_Jay's reply. A buddy had a shop that dealt with many Japanese autos. I asked him what Honda considered "noisy" enough to warrant adjusting valves. His response was the noise was not the condition to be concerned about. You should be worried about NO noise. No noise indicates the valve clearances have closed up and you may have a valve that is close to floating open. That leads to burned valves. If you see the same model cars all day long you develop a sense of what level of noise is "normal". When you hear "quiet" thats when you think about adjusting valves. A few weeks later he had a V-6 accord that wouldn't idle. The fuel pressure and injectors checked out. The timing was right. The EGR system was ok. It ended up that the intake valves lash was really tight (way out of spec). After an adjustment, a set of valve cover gaskets, tube seals etc. It ran like new. If the valves clearance is a little loose (too big of a clearance), you sacrifice a little performance. If the clearance is too tight, you may burn a valve(s). If you do, a shop will want to put the whole head in the machine shop to have a valve job done (they won't risk a come-back by just repairing 1 bad valve). That will cost you a head gasket, intake/exhaust gaskets, coolant, oil, plenty of labor . . . etc. I would argue that it is worth paying for the gasket kit (< $90) and about 2-3 hours labor to have the peace of mind after 105k miles. I did the valve adjust on a V-6 honda in about 4 hours (never having done one on a car before). The clearance is very tight 0.22 mm +/- .02 mm-(thats 1/4 of a mm). So you have an acceptable range of .04 mm! Anyway, Thanks to all of the members here. I have already found alot of money and time saving info here.