oil change

[late49er]

Hello Everyone,

First let me say I have my dealer do a lot of my service work and aside from the normal amount of poor customer service it does appear they at least make an attempt to earn a bit of what they charge.

Anyway I thought I would start doing my oil changes because it is such a hassle having the dealer do them. Still don`t understand why they schedule an appointment and when you get there say they need a vehicle a half day to do a 20 minute oil change.

Well I buy the oil, filter, and washer and was going to do it last weekend until I found out that it seems King Kong tightened my oil filter the last time I visited the dealer. Not sure why they would not just hand tighten the thing.

So I go to the parts department looking for an oil filter wrench, and the first attendant announced that they do not keep them but they can get one for $50.00. I could see they were going to take me but I said fine and while the clerk was trying to figure this out, he disappeared, a management type person came out and announced that they only have the wrenches for their technicians and looked at me like I had just crapped in their parts deparment. That if I wanted one I would have to order it on line with the rest of the trash who orders such things. I resisted telling him the reason I was wanting to do it myself was because of their lack of customer service and that I didn`t have a half a day to leave a vehicle when I make an appointment.

Anyway I love my pilot and my family owns 3 other Honda`s.

Really just have two questions. Why can`t one just hand tighten the filters and why is the dealer so uptight considering he sales filters, oil, etc.,

Perhaps they simply didn`t get their bail out yet and are in a bad mood. Or perhaps they make a lot of money,$49.00, off of oil changes and enjoy the free money.

This is the same reason I learned how to change my pollen filter, with the help of folks here.

Thanks,

Late49er

[ctobio]

Go to Pep Boys, and buy an oil filter wrench there.

Fine one similar to this:



This will remove any oil filter wrench you can find. Make sure that it can accommodate an oil filter as small as ours. I mention Pep Boys because my local one carries one tiny enough to grab onto our tiny filters.

I have one of these, and I've never seen an oil filter it couldn't remove.

I, for the life of me, can't figure out why anyone ever buys one of those cap-style filter sockets. They are so specific to one brand of filter- you don't have the right amount of flutes, and its useless.

[RSQ Pilot]

Originally posted by ctobio
Go to Pep Boys, and buy an oil filter wrench there.

Fine one similar to this:



This will remove any oil filter wrench you can find. Make sure that it can accommodate an oil filter as small as ours. I mention Pep Boys because my local one carries one tiny enough to grab onto our tiny filters.

I have one of these, and I've never seen an oil filter it couldn't remove.

I, for the life of me, can't figure out why anyone ever buys one of those cap-style filter sockets. They are so specific to one brand of filter- you don't have the right amount of flutes, and its useless.

I second the advice... over the years I've had 3 sizes of cap oil filter sockets ( OF Brand specific), 2 cheapo band wrenches and then found ones shown above. They work... you don't !

[humanoid]

I find that these work nice too:

[late49er]

Hello Everyone,

Thanks for the great advice.

I will go out today and buy one of the recommended oil filter wrenches.

Any thoughts on why the dealer is downright mean spirited about this issue.

It just seems to me they should be helpful since their attitude is a big part of my deciding to buy one of their vehicles going forward.

I mean why put a customer though a lot of grief if they simply can`t do an oil change in a reasonable amount of time.

Thanks,

Late 49er

[whizmo]

I've used virtually all types of oil filter wrenches and the above one will work fine until you come across a filter which was put on too tight - when this happens, they'll crush the filter like a beer can before they develop sufficient torque to release at the base gasket. When this happens, you have to resort to pounding screwdrivers into them to get them off.

The problem with the universal one above and any kind of "flute wrench" is that they grab at the end of the filter and not the base so the relatively weak thin sheet metal of the filter has to transmit the torque down to the base gasket which needs to be broken loose.

I've had a couple different sizes of band filter wrenches in my toolbox for ages and they work reliably, even if the filter is on very tight. They tighten as you apply loosening torque and they grab the entire circumferences of the filter at the base.

Again, if you do all your own oil changes and have good control over how tight they are put on, you should be fine with most anything.

- Mark

[whizmo]

Originally posted by ctobio
I, for the life of me, can't figure out why anyone ever buys one of those cap-style filter sockets. They are so specific to one brand of filter- you don't have the right amount of flutes, and its useless.

Because a properly-fitted cap filter can develop a lot more torque than this gizmo. A cap filter applies torque at all the flutes (14 on our Pilot filters) whereas this gizmo applies torque to only three.

I'm glad people are having good luck with this type of universal filter wrench, but its one of the weakest designs with respect to how much torque it can develop, both because it applies torque to only three points and because of the deflection that develops in the arms as you apply torque, moving the engaging faces out of alignment with the flutes faces.

Universal is seldom as good as a custom-fit.

- Mark

[youbetcha]

Strap wrenches work great too just keep the oil off.

[bugmenot]

If you install the filters yourself and follow the hand tightening instructions you won't need any of those appliances.

[youbetcha]

I've definitely had filters that I've hand tightened that, for whatever reason, are very difficult to get off later. I figured it was a heat/expansion thing with the new filter being cold out of the box and the old filter being hot.

[ctobio]

Originally posted by whizmo
Universal is seldom as good as a custom-fit.

Fair enough, but then you're buying oil filters to fit your tool, rather than a tool that can fit your oil filters.

I actually keep the universal tool for that first oil change on all my cars. It's the only occasion I've had for it. I remember on my 03 Passat, the first change I had to put my breaker bar on the tool to get it to break the filter loose. Guess what? It crushed the end nicely, but the damned thing did break loose without any sort of tragedy.

[humanoid]

I think the type of wrench I posted is great. If you grab the body of the filter and twist, but still doesn't budge you can grab it towards the base of the filter and still get it off without any mess.

[whizmo]

Originally posted by bugmenot
If you install the filters yourself and follow the hand tightening instructions you won't need any of those appliances.

Well, first off, "hand tighten as much as you can" is no longer the recommended oil filter torquing method with most oil filters. The Pilot gives both a angle of rotation (3/4 turn clockwise) and a torque spec (8.7 lb-fit). I still like the hand-tighten method though.

Second, whatever method you use to put the filter on, it doesn't mean you can always get it off by hand. Typically you can't.

- Mark

[ctobio]

Originally posted by whizmo


Well, first off, "hand tighten as much as you can" is no longer the recommended oil filter torquing method with most oil filters. The Pilot gives both a angle of rotation (3/4 turn clockwise) and a torque spec (8.7 lb-fit). I still like the hand-tighten method though.

The 3/4 turn rule has been in place as long as I could remember. It was on all the boxes of oil filters I sold 20+ years ago when I sold auto parts.

Second, whatever method you use to put the filter on, it doesn't mean you can always get it off by hand. Typically you can't.

I have this problem sometimes. It's usually not a torque problem, it's a traction problem. I find that I can undo most any oil filter or sauce jar if I am wearing a rubber dishwashing glove.

[late49er]

Hello Everyone,

Thanks for the great advice.

I guess what really upset me about this, other than the attitude of the dealer, is why should such a simple thing get so crazy.

Before I purchased the Pilot I had a jeep that I ran around in for about 15 years and it was very easy simply to take the filter off,(hand loosen) and be done with the whole thing in 15 minutes.

It seems like Honda makes a great vehicle and the dealers are scrambling to make a buck anyway they can and treating their customers like mushrooms and feeding them bull**** is just standard operating procedure.

I remember my dealer wanting a 150.00 to do a pollen filter exchange. I would have liked to let him do it but not for that so I read up here and did it myself in about 30 minutes.

This is really about intergrity and Honda needs to recognize this kind of silliness is what lays the foundation for them ending up like AIG.

Oh well I am 60 and hopefully this will be the last vehicle I purchase.

Thanks again.

Late 49er