Do I trust the oil change reminder?

[swamper8]

Hello all,
I was just wondering how many people out there change their oil at a specific interval (like 3k, 4k etc.) or if everyone changes their oil only when the percentage in the message center says to? Reason being the indicator says 60% and 3k has been put on the pilot. That would mean I am probably looking at 7k between oil changes which seems like a bit much.
Thanks!

[youbetcha]

Originally posted by swamper8
Hello all,
I was just wondering how many people out there change their oil at a specific interval (like 3k, 4k etc.) or if everyone changes their oil only when the percentage in the message center says to? Reason being the indicator says 60% and 3k has been put on the pilot. That would mean I am probably looking at 7k between oil changes which seems like a bit much.
Thanks!

Ah, this, I think is a very deep question.

Actually if you search on "Maintenance Minder" you will find more discussion on this than you ever wanted.

I, myself, follow the maintenance minder, because of simple logic.

1) engines can fail or have problems if they are poorly maintained
2) patterns of engine failures/problems would be bad for Honda's image, if they occured despite owners maintaining their engines according to any reasonable schedule.
3) patterns of engine failures/problems would be infinitely worse for Honda's image, if they occurred despite owners following specific maintenance prompts provided by Honda.
4) Honda likely thought through #1-3 before ever developing the Maintenance Minder system.
5) Further, Honda would have no reason to engineer the MM system, if there were any reasonable downside potential that the system could be blamed for.
6) ERGO, I follow the MM system and I don't worry about it, not one bit. There is simply too much at stake for Honda.

[dj5]

I follow the MM and change the oil when it reaches about 10%. I use Mobil 1 5w30 Extended Synthetic and a K&N oil filter.

[whizmo]

Originally posted by swamper8
That would mean I am probably looking at 7k between oil changes which seems like a bit much.

"A bit much" compared to what? Virtually nobody except Jiffy Lube and die-hard oil-change fanatics are recommending 3K anymore. Some of the Euro makes are now recommending 25K+ miles between oil changes!

With modern oils and engine management systems, 7K is still pretty conservative - those who have oil analysis done with the MM-recommended intervals are reporting that the oil still looks pretty good. Although you won't hurt anything (except your wallet) by doing it more often, I think the MM represents a pretty good overall compromise.

- Mark

[humanoid]

Well spoken, Mark! The Honda engineers put in the MM for a reason.

[swamper8]

Originally posted by whizmo


"A bit much" compared to what? Virtually nobody except Jiffy Lube and die-hard oil-change fanatics are recommending 3K anymore. Some of the Euro makes are now recommending 25K+ miles between oil changes!

With modern oils and engine management systems, 7K is still pretty conservative - those who have oil analysis done with the MM-recommended intervals are reporting that the oil still looks pretty good. Although you won't hurt anything (except your wallet) by doing it more often, I think the MM represents a pretty good overall compromise.

- Mark

I say it's a bit much simply because I am a die hard maintenance freak and raised old school. It's always been 3k between oil changes and all the people I know that do this seem to have vehicles that last forever. But I am perfectly willing to accept that oils are changing and that interval can be extended. I certainly have NO PROBLEM waiting longer, I'm not a young stud anymore and really am tired of crawling on the frozen ground to change my oil. I only ask because my G/F just bought her Pilot and I want it to last her a long time. (she puts 3K on a month) I'm hoping for 200k out of this Pilot and am willing to maintain it where necessary. I've already registered at the owners link website and looked at all the maintenance minders and will follow those accordingly. There was no specific mileage number for oil changes and I guess for obvious reasons; Honda wants you to follow the message center. I just wanted to make sure this percentage calculation wasn't simply a time/mileage algorithm and have to question its value.

[whizmo]

Originally posted by swamper8
I only ask because my G/F just bought her Pilot and I want it to last her a long time. (she puts 3K on a month) I'm hoping for 200k out of this Pilot and am willing to maintain it where necessary. I just wanted to make sure this percentage calculation wasn't simply a time/mileage algorithm and have to question its value.

First, anyone putting 3K/month on a car is an excellent candidate for extending mileage intervals - high utilization is one of the factors that reduce oil wear/tear. Supposedly the MM will take this high utilization into account to some extent, along with other factors.

It is a "time/mileage algorithm" - there are no sensors in the oil. Nobody here is privy to hard information, but most of these systems take into account calendar time, engine percent power, RPMs, cold starts, ambient temps, throttle position, and other info available to the engine computer. There is no reason that such an algorithm can't do a excellent job predicting oil life.

Pre-2006 Pilots didn't have the MM system and as I recall the change intervals were 7.5K in normal service and 5K in severe service. My 2006 is requesting changes about every 5K, probably because of a lot of short trips.

Would 3K intervals make the engine last longer? Perhaps, but I suspect if you did a scientific tests with 1000 engines in test cells, you'd find the 3K oil-change engines would have a.... pick a lowish number, perhaps 5%?... lesser-chance of oil-related failure through 200K than 7K oil-change engines. Is it cost effective to spend $2K more for oil-changes during this 200K for this reduction in risk? Most would say no.

And I'd spend extra on synthetic oil before I'd spend it on shorter intervals. This will only increase your oil change expense by a small amount. Or do oil analysis through the first few oil changes and confirm if the MM is doing an Okay job.

- Mark

[youbetcha]

Honda Accords, Civics, and Odysseys all use the same Maintenance Minder system as the Pilot and represent who knows how many hundreds of thousands of cars -- probably millions that last few years the MM system has been in place. Do any of these cars have any history at all of oil related problems or failures? I think there would be a lot of complaining on the internet if there were.

[rocky]

Don't feel bad for the 7k oil change intervals. Pre MM Pilots had 7500 miles assuming normal usage

[youbetcha]

Originally posted by rocky
Don't feel bad for the 7k oil change intervals. Pre MM Pilots had 7500 miles assuming normal usage

That's right. Maybe it is easier of thinking of the MM as: it starts at a 7,500 mile interval and reduces it, if it senses severe use.

This isn't what it really does but probably a better descriptor for those who need help moving from the oil change = miles paradigm.

[sjlee]

Originally posted by rocky
Don't feel bad for the 7k oil change intervals. Pre MM Pilots had 7500 miles assuming normal usage

I've been doing 7500 mi OCIs for a while now... probably since we bought the Pilot new.

Never had any problems, but after the last oil change, I had a UOA done. According to Blackstone, they said that the oil was pretty much used up and recommended I back down the OCI a little. This was with the bulk 5W-20 conventional oil that the dealer uses.

I put in Chevron 5W-30 this time around (had some leftover from when I had my Integra). If I still get the same results, I'll probably go with more frequent OCIs... like 5-6k.

[Michal]

Originally posted by swamper8

It's always been 3k between oil changes and all the people I know that do this seem to have vehicles that last forever.

I have changed oil every 7K + (according to what the maintenance minder told me) on my Honda CRV 2000. It has 230+K now and it still going strong. I can't even sell it with this mileage!
Don't want to repeat over what was said here but I'd rather trust Honda engineers, my own recent experience and people with great Honda experience (you just met some of them on this and other threads) than Jiffy Lube who makes money out of frequent oil changes.

M

[ctobio]

Originally posted by swamper8


I say it's a bit much simply because I am a die hard maintenance freak and raised old school. It's always been 3k between oil changes and all the people I know that do this seem to have vehicles that last forever. But I am perfectly willing to accept that oils are changing and that interval can be extended.

3k is certainly excessive. If you need convincing, send a sample to Blackstone Labs after a standard oil change interval.

My VW Passat is now on 10k+ oil changes, and the oil samples I've sent are nearly as good as the 5k samples I've taken.

[tangotango99]

Originally posted by sjlee


I've been doing 7500 mi OCIs for a while now... probably since we bought the Pilot new.

Never had any problems, but after the last oil change, I had a UOA done. According to Blackstone, they said that the oil was pretty much used up and recommended I back down the OCI a little. This was with the bulk 5W-20 conventional oil that the dealer uses.

I put in Chevron 5W-30 this time around (had some leftover from when I had my Integra). If I still get the same results, I'll probably go with more frequent OCIs... like 5-6k.

Let us know if you lose a bit on the mpg side with oil grade change.

[Kalbo607]

Just remember as far as I know the MM does not consider oil level, so make sure to check the dipstick every now and then.