Oil change horror story - Help

[204028434]

I have been changing the oil on my vehicles for 30 years without incident. I am not a novice and have a methodical process as follows:

1) Remove oil pan plug and drain used oil

2) Replace plug

3) Remove filter, ensuring rubber ring (gasket) is not left behind on engine

4) Apply light film of fresh oil to rubber ring on new filter; check again to ensure old gasket not left on engine to avoid "double gasketing"; gently hand-tighten filter

5) Use filter wrench if slick for 1/4-1/2 additional turn; if not slick, use hand

6) Refill crankcase with 4.5 - 5 qts.

7) check oil level with dipstick; add oil if necessary

8) tighten oil filler cap and make sure dipstick is fully seated

9) start engine and inspect for any leaks when system under pressure; look at dashboard gauge to ensure oil light goes off after immediately after starting.

10) stop engine and repeat steps 7 and 8.

11) record mileage in maintenance log


So began August 25, 2008 when I changed the oil on my beloved 2004 Pilot. I was getting married in 6 days and planned to take the Pilot on a 2000-mile honeymoon down Hwy 1 on the California coast.

Everything went according to plan with steps 1-11 above. I used Mobil 1 5W20 synthetic oil and a Fram PH7317 filter. Check, check, check.

The following day I was literally on my way out of town to drive 350 miles to the location where I was getting married when the oil light came on. I immediately pulled over and to my horror, oil was sprayed all over the inside of the front passenger tire and axle assembly, right where the oil filter hangs down. The filter was tight. The dipstick and filler cap were tight. There was no oil in the engine compartment sprayed on the hood as would have been the case if an unseated dipstick had been the culprit.

Towed the car to Jiffy Lube and had them check. Could find no obvious installation error, although they seemed to think the PH7317 was the wrong filter (if so, I've been using the wrong filter for 5 years and the Fram catalog and website are wrong...JiffyLube insisted that the filter should be Fram PH4459 but I insist they are wrong).

Anyway, Jiffy Lube refilled crankcase and replaced filter even though they could not find any obvious installation error. I drove the car for 10 minutes and the light came back on. By that time, I was close to the dealer and left the car with them. A couple days later, they called and told me the short block would have to be replaced; I consoled myself that my extended warranty would cover it, only to find out that the insurance company denied the claim, citing "improper maintenance."

I'm appealing to them now, but have the following questions:

1) Anyone ever heard of such a failure?

2) I absolutely insist and have triple checked that the Fram PH7317 is the correct oil filter for this vehicle (2004 Pilot).

3) Could over-tightening a filter cause a leak of this nature?

4) Has anyone ever encountered a defective filter?

5) If I checked the system and saw no leaks immediately after the oil change and with the engine running, what might cause the failure once I was on the road? There was no evidence of a stray rock or foreign object damage to the filter.

This couldn't have come at a worse time...starting a new life, paying for a wedding and honeymoon, etc. I'm really hoping the insurance company will be forced to honor my claim, but wondered if any other posters here have insight as to what could cause this type of failure.

Frankly, I am somewhat distrustful of oil change franchises. I once was driving a company vehicle immediately after a quick lube place had done an oil change. I began to hear a strange noise under the hood after driving a few miles. Turns out it was the tappets clicking. The quick lube place had neglected to reseat the dipstick and the oil had sprayed out all over the hood and engine compartment. Fortunately, I caught it before it destroyed the engine, but it has made we very wary of quick lube places ever since.

[jestmaty]

Never had anything like that happen on my '04 Pilot.

All oil changes have done by myself with Mobil 1, Wix, Bosch filters without incident.

Man, I hope this works out for you... I'm at a loss as to the cause. I've never been a fan of the location of the oil filter. It just seems to be hanging out there, waiting for something to hit it, puncture it, then have all the oil dump out rapidly.

Good luck, let us know the outcome/cause.

[N_Jay]

Why does the short block need to be replaced?

Where was the oil leak from?

[ncelk]

Sounds like you did it like we all would have. The question is, did you keep the original filter that you put on. I would want to take a good look at it. I am at a loss as to what could have happened. Sounds like everything was done as it should have been, and you have done this long enough it should not have been a problem.

[andyschneider]

Yea - my question is where was the oil leaking from? There isn't much that can leak - gasket, crimp seal on the filter, or the can itself. If the mating surface matches properly, then only a defect can cause the leak. On the other hand, if the rubber gasket isn't 100 percent making contact with the mounting surface, it'll leak or spray. To me, at first blush, it sounds like the filter was too large mounting-wise for the vehicle. Either that, or there's a crack on the oil filter mount. Something has a defect or an incorrect part - and the key will be what it was. If you ran the oil too low due to the very first leak and the vehicle had issues, then it would be a maintenance issue. But if you can somehow prove the filter was defective, you may have another route to go.

I only use factory filters mostly because I can buy them in lots of 6 for the same price as Fram over the counter ones - and I know they fit - just a habit I've gotten into for the last 20 years or so. I used to use Fram exclusively, but I had one let go on me back in the mid 80's (defect on the crimp seal) and I don't trust 'em any more. Only problem I ever had other than that was the infamous double-gasket issue - and it sprayed everywhere right away. Used Arco Graphite in the early 80's back then - what a friggin' mess.....

andy

[whizmo]

Sorry for your troubles.

The fact that two different oil filters failed is very suspicious. The dealer is telling you that you need to fix the oil-failure-related damage, but what has been determined to be the cause of the loss of oil? Oil pump too high pressure? Crack in adapter where the filter mounts? You need to get to the bottom of this.

And I wouldn't take Honda's word on the short-block replacement. If you can't identify what is caused the failure, I'd put a Honda filter on the thing and start driving it. You have nothing to lose.

The key on warranty coverage is to find the root cause and have it not be the oil filter. Honda is not going to cover it if they can blame the oil filters. I just don't see how two different oil filters can both be defective and fail one after the other. I'm not a fan of Fram filters, but I also don't think they fail brand new out of the box one after the other.

- Mark

[pat2k8]

Sorry to hear. To me it sounds like a double gasket issue. Then after all the oil had sprayed out, the light came on, when the light comes on it is too late! How long did the engine run with the first oil light on? Enough wear could have happened then to cause the clearences to become so big that oil pressure loss would always be an issue. For me the question is what did the jiffy lube see? They aren't going to notice or see a double gasket if it's just a kid working the pit.

Again, sorry to hear the bad news. I had a double gasket happen once and it was in my driveway, luckily. But now when doing an oil change i always pay attention!!!

[rocky]

This is nuts.

It makes no sense.

Nearest war story I have is when the oil filler cap was accidentally left off and oil sprayed everywhere. Somehow without catching fire.

[SgtHulka]

Worst case scenario: Cracked Block, or the oil pressure regulating valve is stuck in the closed position causing too much pressure and sending the oil spraying out of the filter seal.

But I don't know what would cause the block to just randomly crack!? Seems unlikely.

[jamesbalzer]

Over tightening the filter can cause this issue. You can actually warp the filter head, causing the not warped filter to leave a gap in the sealing surface. 1/4 Turn should not have caused the head to warp. Probably impossible to get your hands on the filter you originally installed, but if you can you need to. Oil filters can collapse (a manufacturing issue and ultimately the progresive damage would be the responsibility of Fram) causing total loss of oil pressure/circulation. Proving this is tough with the failed filter and impossible without it. The second filter was probably fine, but as previously stated, the damage was done.

[scuba steve]

i suspect debris, old gasket from the previous filter still on the block, or a faulty valve in the filter itself.

i do hate most mfg's don't put a real oil pressure gauge in their cars anymore.

[Fir na tine]

I think Pat2k8 and scuba steve are correct. You're old filter gasket is still on the block. Now there are two and it can't make a seal.

Most people say to put a thin film of oil on the gasket before you install the new filter. I've had some cars where it is near impossible to reach the oil filter and have had them stick. I've been using clean axle grease on the gasket for the last 20 years and have yet to have one stick. Just use a small amount.